Sawstop system

[8iowa]

Sawstop (http://www.sawstop.com) has developed a new saw safety system that senses a finger contacting the blade and stops the blade in 5 microseconds, giving one a small nick rather than an amputation.

It would appear to me that the mark V could be adapted to this system with a newly engineered lower saw guard assembly. The blade retraction part of the system would not be able to be included but it seems to me that the stop could be employed on the Mark V.

I would buy this accessory immediately if it were offered. What do you guys think.

[dusty]

It is very interesting. But I will wait for awhile. What we are reading/seeing now are press releases arranged by the designer/manufacturer.

I saw something on TV, I don't recall what program; but it showed the system at work. The demo showed how a hotdog in the blade resulted in blade withdrawal and power shutdown. I'm not from Missouri but but you gotta showme. I am a bit skeptical.

[paul heller]

For more opinions, see the discussion here

[dusty]

More info upon which to make an informed decision.

http://www.workbenchmagazine.com/main/w ... ml#sawstop

[chiroindixon]

Having had my hand caught badly several years ago, a SawStop will be my next big purchase. (Wasn't my SS's fault....this operator just got too cocky.)

For the non believers, check out the Jan 07 WOODCRAFT issue. A group of veteran woodworkers put the system to the test. It is not only as safe as it's claimed to be, but a great saw as well. A fairly recent review from the writers of WOOD magazine reported the same. It's becoming their saw of choice in a shop that has several of the best.

Pricey? Yup. But what I paid in just my co-pays for my surgery would have had the SawStop sitting downstairs.

As I continue to woodwork, I am reminded of the old and true adage, that "It's not if you will ever get bit, but when....and how badly".

Doc

[Ed in Tampa]

Having had my hand caught badly several years ago, a SawStop will be my next big purchase. (Wasn't my SS's fault....this operator just got too cocky.)

For the non believers, check out the Jan 07 WOODCRAFT issue. A group of veteran woodworkers put the system to the test. It is not only as safe as it's claimed to be, but a great saw as well. A fairly recent review from the writers of WOOD magazine reported the same. It's becoming their saw of choice in a shop that has several of the best.

Pricey? Yup. But what I paid in just my co-pays for my surgery would have had the SawStop sitting downstairs.

As I continue to woodwork, I am reminded of the old and true adage, that "It's not if you will ever get bit, but when....and how badly".

Doc

Doc
I think you hit on a big point, "the operator just got too cocky"
And that is my fear of the SawStop, believe it or not you can still get hurt on it. It might not be as bad a cut but let me tell you having you hand jammed into a even a non turning saw blade can still do damage.

I'm afraid the SawStop will encourage people to take chances they wouldn't normally take, knowing the possibility of injury.

Also the saw doesn't do anything for kickback type problems. Again people tend to think themselves safe and do stupid things. They are the ones that are going to get hurt on the SawStop.

Lastly I have seen people stand on tiny benches so they can lean further over the saw to push wood through. While I know the blade stop quick, but there is still going to be a lot of damage done by a person catching their weight on one hand pushed down on a spinning saw blade even if that blade stops instantly.

Ed

[chiroindixon]

(Ed.....I'm glad to have this computer back up and able to read from you.)

My "getting cocky" wasn't all the error. I was cutting right along doing an operation that the saw guard had to be off.....easy repetive cuts AND my sliding sled/jig caught a knot (?). BANG... jumped out of the miter track. Hand on piece followed.....

One lesson to pass on.....Have ALL the jigs, etc. that run through that slot and table, outfitted with miter bars that have that "quarter round piece" that secures it in the track. Standard SS.

It took me many mental replays to figure out what really had happened. This commercial sled (non SS) had no such "safety". When I brought a neighbor machinist in to check my theory, he concurred immediately. "Seen that happen often". He has since machined this sled guide bar to have the "quarters" fore and aft. No way the sled will pop out again.

Having said all that, every woodworker should read those SawStop reviews. It's a kick ass idea that works. And a great table saw too.....

[Nick]

We've looked at the SawStop System here with great interest. Unfortunately, the system as it presently exists cannot be adapted to a Shopsmith. Attend a demonstration and note that the system does not simply stop the saw when they touch the hot dog to the blade. The blade stops and retracts.. No way to do that on a Shopsmith.

Let me tell you guys something that hasn't appeared in any of the reviews. The SawStop folks went to the Power Tool Institute and lobbied for a ruling that would have effectly forced table saw manufactures to use the SawStop system. This would have given them what used to be known as a "patent monopoly." The effects of patent monopolies on society has not been all that positive. Alexander Graham Bell was handed a patent monopoly when US Courts ruled his patent to be the "grandfather" patent of the telecommunications industry. The result was a single telephone service that eventually had to be regulated by the government as a utility to keep it from gouging its customers. Morganthaler was allowed to have a patent monopoly on his typesetter and this gave an artificial advantage to larger, more prosperous newspapers that could afford his invention. Smaller newspapers without mechanical typesetters could not compete and went out of business. This limited free speech in this country more effectively than any government decree could have done.

A mandatory safety device on table saws may prevent accidents, but a patent monopoly on such a device may have some unwanted results for both manufacturers and craftsmen. The SawStop folks don't seem to be letting anyone off cheap -- the grapevine has it that they ask an outrageous engineering fee to adapt their invention to a single saw brand. If their recent request to the PTI had been granted there would be many manufacturers, some of whom make high quality tools but not necessarily high profits, that would not have been able to afford the SawStop fee. These manufacturers would have bowed out of the table saw business. You would not have lost any fingers, but you would have lost choices.

That said, I'm impressed by the SawStop system and I don't buy the malarky that having it makes you more complacent or careless. I think it has exceptional value in shop classes where young people are just learning the safety rules that will keep their fingers attached to their hands. I volunteer one day a week building airplanes with kids in Russia, Ohio and I would love to see our donated Shopsmith equipment outfitted with a modified SawStop system that just stopped the saw when the kids waved a hot dog in its direction. But if you're going to make this system mandatory, then both Shopsmith and Russia Local Schools should be able to choose from competing suppliers so as to keep the cost reasonable.

Something to think about.

With all good wishes,

[Ed in Tampa]

We've looked at the SawStop System here with great interest. Unfortunately, the system as it presently exists cannot be adapted to a Shopsmith. Attend a demonstration and note that the system does not simply stop the saw when they touch the hot dog to the blade. The blade stops and retracts.. No way to do that on a Shopsmith.

That brings up an interesting question. Has Shopsmith ever thought of mounting a saw arbor and trunnions to the bottom of a table and then using a belt/gear arrangement to drive the arbor? That way the table could be fixed and the blade could tilt for bevels plus you could even incorporate a SawStop arrangement if you wanted.

I could envision a saw table with an arbor trunnion assembly bolted to the bottom like a contractor saw running to a gear/belt drive train which is powered off the powerhead.

Another thought would be to use a breakable link between the powerhead and the Sawstop mechanism. Then if a finger touched the blade the Sawstop could simply snap the link and drop down.

As far as SawStop trying to get a government mandate for it's use. I have heard the inventors/financial backers of the project are lawyers. So what do you expect. I personally find it distastful but expected.

Nick you said, "That said, I'm impressed by the SawStop system and I don't buy the malarky that having it makes you more complacent or careless."

Nick I ask you to go spend some time in an emergency room and then come back and repeat that comment. You won't believe what people do in cars thinking they are safe with seat belts and air bags. Or with a new bike that has shocks on the front end, they never imagined they couldn't go down the steps.

I know one person almost cut a finger off showing his friend that electric knifes can't cut you. It seems he had a plaster cast and it was cut off with an "electric" cast saw. All he got out of the experience with the Doctor was the cast saw was electric and it oscillated. He completely missed the fact it didn't have a knife edge and oscillation only moved a very short distance. It never dawned on him to think about the roast he was about to cut up.

You might call it marlarky but I call it brain dead.

Ed

[chiroindixon]

Until I come up with bigger shop, much money, here's my short term solution. (Idea stolen from a David Marks episode.....)
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It's a Rockler router switch, triggered to "OFF" by leaning to tap with my shin. Turns back on with easy reach to low right. No fumbling under saw table and allows me to hang onto workpiece with both hands. Works great. Wife happy and less intimidated of use.

Doc