Safe to Rip From Both Ends?

algale · Post by **algale** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:35 pm

foxtrapper wrote:You're freehanding against the fence when cutting this way. Something I don't like to do with long boards. I've found I'm very poor at keeping them tight against the fence when freehanding. The longer the board, the worse my results.

I don't like free handing either. But, why couldn't a feather board be used in the usual place right in front of the blade? The first cut is done just like any rip. when you turn the board around you are feeding uncut board into the feather board/blade right up to the completion of a cut and the feather board should work fine, I'd think.

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:47 pm

If you just use an outfeed table, you don't have to worry about whether this is safe or not, or what the consequences are should there be a mishap. I believe that sooner or later this technique is going to hurt you, so why even consider it.

reible · Post by **reible** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:51 pm

pennview wrote:If you just use an outfeed table, you don't have to worry about whether this is safe or not, or what the consequences are should there be a mishap. I believe that sooner or later this technique is going to hurt you, so why even consider it.

Got agree here, since there are so many better ways why play with this one, it is an accident waiting to happen.

Ed

algale · Post by **algale** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:57 pm

pennview wrote:If you just use an outfeed table, you don't have to worry about whether this is safe or not, or what the consequences are should there be a mishap. I believe that sooner or later this technique is going to hurt you, so why even consider it.

There's no reason this technique could not be used with an outfeed table. It seems to me the potential advantage of making two rip cuts, each to the middle of the board, over a traditional rip cut which is done in one fell swoop, so to speak, is that by making two cuts to the center of the board you can keep your hands much further away from the saw blade during a rip because you don't have to push the cut right up the end of the board where your hand/push stick is. If you are ripping a five foot board, your pushing hand won't have to get closer than 2.5 feet to the blade on either pass. Now, if the technique is much more likely to cause a kickback even with the blade stopped between cuts, then it isn't worth it. That was my initial take, but the more I thought about it, the more it occurred to me that it might actually be safer, all other things being equal. I still haven't made up my mind.

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:14 pm

I have done this but only rarely. I like to rip using a feather-board to hold the work firmly against the fence. I don't just let the feather board lay against the board, I have it pressing somewhat firmly against it. Instead of pulling the board back out I just let it lay and walk around to the back of the saw (we are talking about a good sized board here, not some little stick that should have been cut by hand or on a bandsaw). The board is staying put because it is gripped by the feather-board and at a good balance point. That is also the type of job where I would be using the guard and anti-kickback. When I get around back (note that at no time have I walked in the path of a possible kickback) I just grip the out-feed end firmly and continue cutting. The feather board still keeps the board properly against the fence until the end of the cut because I have it mounted so that the board is gripped until the cut is done.

I use the guard a lot more often on my TS-3650 than I ever did on any other saw I owned because it is about a 15 second install / remove job. That the real secret to a safe guard is it not being a PITA to mount / dismount. So many of the old saw guards were just a silly joke. Many were the most dangerous part of the saw.

The guard on my SS 510 is "OK" but the one on the Rigid 3650 is a lot better. Slide it on the shaft to the alignment pin and turn a knob... Done...

.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:20 pm

anmius wrote:I vote for it being not safe. To much opportunity for some kind of mishap. And, for a 1" board, you should be using the saw guard with anti-kickback pawls -- so how do you pull the board back with the saw running?....

I vote no. Get an outfeed table or some help.

anmius hit the nail on the head!!!!:D Tisk! - Tisk!

It is obvious these guys (the ones lifting the half sawn boards) are not using the upper saw guard with riving knife and anti-kick back pawls. Why?????? Don't tell me it is normally left off. If it is - there remains the danger of personal injury. Crappy looking burnt and/or uneven board edges are not even a concern here. If they wanted a good looking board, where was the fether board.

This practice can, and maybe already has caused one of those accidents professed by makers of the Saw Stop. It is certainly not the type of sawing practice that should be encouraged. Even if you have done it.

Francis has shown a much improved method of sawing a long board without outfeed.

foxtrapper · Post by **foxtrapper** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:37 pm

algale wrote:I don't like free handing either. But, why couldn't a feather board be used in the usual place right in front of the blade? The first cut is done just like any rip. when you turn the board around you are feeding uncut board into the feather board/blade right up to the completion of a cut and the feather board should work fine, I'd think.

Two reasons.

First, you can't pull the wood out backwards against a featherboard. One of those nice anti-kickback features I like about them.

Second, On the second cut, as you finish, the feather board will be pushing against the cut off piece, jamming it nicely against the saw blade. At that point, something interesting is quite likely to happen.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 pm

algale wrote:How do you see this causing a cantilever problem? No matter how long the board is, if you only cut to the mid point of the board -- and just to the front of the blade (where all the cuttting is done), then on both initial cut and the completion cut the weight of the board will either be on the table or equal amounts of the board will be overhanging the back of the table and front of the table (as measured from the front of the blade in both case), thus providing a perfect or nearly perfect counterweight on both the work piece and the cut off. Thus no true cantilever. Or am I missing something?

I did not even consider lifting the board at the mid point after the second pass. It is then two pieces as I mentioned. Now I can understand why Gene let the cutoff fall off the backside, since raising the piece against the fence will be more easily done with two hands. I was thinking of pushing it on through, rather than lifting it again.

I still do not like it, but would do so if needed.

As far as the 'upper' guard and splitter? No, I never had one. They were an extra cost accessory back in 1963. Since I have come this far without one, it will be interesting how long I tolerate them on the 510. I will give them fair opportunity!

P.S. If you do NOT have a cantilever problem, then outfeed support is not needed.

P.P.S. I also agree that total understanding and concentration are a minimum prerequisite.

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:55 pm

If you pull a board backwards after ripping half way through a cut, you run the risk of losing control of the board. Should that happen, the board could be launched at you. Why take the chance of that happening. And, its much easier to push a board through a saw blade as in ripping, than to pull that same board back toward you. Additionally, if the kerf starts to close after you begin ripping, and you now pull this closing kerf into the back of the saw blade, this too could cause the board to be launched at you.

A good number of years ago, I dropped an offcut piece of maple about 3" wide by 18" long onto a spinning saw blade. Getting hit in the gut with that piece of wood left a definite impression in more ways than one.

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:02 pm

pennview wrote:If you pull a board backwards after ripping half way through a cut, you run the risk of losing control of the board. Should that happen, the board could be launched at you. Why take the chance of that happening. And, its much easier to push a board through a saw blade as in ripping, than to pull that same board back toward you. Additionally, if the kerf starts to close after you begin ripping, and you now pull this closing kerf into the back of the saw blade, this too could cause the board to be launched at you.

A good number of years ago, I dropped an offcut piece of maple about 3" wide by 18" long onto a spinning saw blade. Getting hit in the gut with that piece of wood left a definite impression in more ways than one.

Oh yes I remember feeling very lucky I was not in the path of a 1" wide maple missile as it ripped thru a pegboard tool holder. I was cured of ever attempting that again. Jim