Some Shopsmith history (Kinda)

[Ed in Tampa]

Because I'd heard that the Craftsman and the RIDGID are basically the same saw coming out of the same factory in China,

Actually Craftsman saws were built by Emerson which was bought by Ridgid.
However many years ago before Ridgid bought Emerson tool Sears switched to Orion Saws. Orion was supposedly Delta engineers that left Delta when it got sold and started their own company. Some say there are some ties to Steel City Saws. In any case Orion manufactures their saw on their own.

Ridgid was then bought by a company that was part of OWT out of China. They also own Milwaukee and a few others. And they are build our of China.

Ridgid has been very clear in stating that their saw in unique to Ridgid and built to Ridgid specs. They openly admit that the plant that builds their products may have contracts to build other saws but these other saws have their own specs and manufacturing techniques.

I don't think any saw on the market today is a rebadge of any other saw. It may closely resemble another saw because the China loves to reverse engineer things.

The only real rebadge that I know of is Grizzly(mail order only) and ShopFox international(retail store). And even then the owner of both companies says each brand has some differences other than name and paint color. However they look nearly identical.

[algale]

[quote="Ed in Tampa"]When I said resolved I should have said could be adjusted out of most saws.

Now the problem of the lateral blade movement while raising or lowering the blade is a totally different problem.

Blade heeling is usually caused by one of two things]

I'm not taking issue with their fixes or the fact that machines may need to be set up properly; but some of the complaints indicated that adding washers to shim the table did not change anything.

[Ed in Tampa]

While I am not suggesting all tilt-arbor saws have this problem, it appears to still be an all-too common problem on a variety of non-cabinet saws, which begins to make sense of why a recent bevel cutting sled for tilt-arbor saws got an enthusiastic reception a few weeks back over on Lumberjocks.

Counter to internet experts any saw that uses trunion system can experience blade heeling. Both contractor or hybred, or cabinet.

The problem is in the blade arbor support and how it moves in the trunion. If the trunion is misadjusted or not properly shimmed it can happen. But it can also happen due to poor design and sloppy manufacturing.

Most one piece arbor support saws have solved the poor design and sloppy manufacturing type problems. But they can still be adjusted wrong.

Incidently Ridgid, General international. Dewalt 746 saw, Delta Unisaw, Powermatic and others use one piece casted arbor support that runs between arbors. There are still many saws that use multipiece arbor supports that incorporate tubes/bars. Some are pinned together, some are bonded and some are pressed. I once has a accurate list of which was which but I only listed the ones I knew for sure since beginning of 2010.

Incidentally I haven't heard of one Dewalt 746 saw that wasn't 100% on the money out of the box, adjustment wise. I don't know of another saw that I have heard that about.

[Ed in Tampa]

[quote="algale"]I'm not taking issue with their fixes or the fact that machines may need to be set up properly]

I don't doubt there are some saws manufactured that can't be adjusted but that is why manufactures have warrantees and return policies.

But I suspect the biggest problem is people that have an axe to grind or don't have mechanical ability to correctly due the adjustment.

How many people here have seemingly impossible problems with their Shopsmith that many of us have never seen or heard of?

[dusty]

You seem to speak with authority, Ed, on these issues and maybe you are BUT

I suggest that you be very careful with your statements about the trunnions having been drilled incorrectly. There is tangible evidence that the front and rear trunnions were different AND some of us chose to redrill our rear trunnions BUT there has been no confirmation that we are to spec in having done so.

I recently posted comments stating that maybe my Centerline Problem was introduced to my Mark V as a direct result of the rear trunnion being redrilled.

I cannot confirm that now because I don't have any trunnions that are virgin. I just have to be careful when I do a complete table alignment that I don't reintroduce that mal-alignment.

[JPG]

You seem to speak with authority, Ed, on these issues and maybe you are BUT

I suggest that you be very careful with your statements about the trunnions having been drilled incorrectly. There is tangible evidence that the front and rear trunnions were different AND some of us chose to redrill our rear trunnions BUT there has been no confirmation that we are to spec in having done so.

I recently posted comments stating that maybe my Centerline Problem was introduced to my Mark V as a direct result of the rear trunnion being redrilled.

I cannot confirm that now because I don't have any trunnions that are virgin. I just have to be careful when I do a complete table alignment that I don't reintroduce that mal-alignment.

Any body that has received a new SS recently know what size the rear trunion holes are? That should nail down the defective/intentional question.

IMHO it was probably originally intentional, but ill advised!;)

[dusty]

Very interesting reading. At least it was for me. It was scarey though because some of it is not as I remember.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=1769&highlight=trunnion

[woodburner]

Pennview,

I went to the websites to check out the tools on your list and yes you can buy these tools for the prices you listed, but the quality and capacities are not there when compared to a Shopsmith. Sorry to those who may own these tools, but thats the way it is. Drill press table is tiny, sanding disk in not variable speed, etc.

Lets use the lathe you listed as an example. JET 1236 lathe, reg. price $899.00, on sale right now for $764.00. Swing over bedways: 12 inches, Length between centers: 36 inches, Motor HP: 3/4 hp. Six Speed Steps (not true variable speed) between 550 and 3,000 rpms. For simple turnings it is nice but not solid. It has weak legs and weak bedways. It vibrates excessively with the slightest out-of-round stock. Under powered (mini-lathes have the same HP). Bedways flex when turning large spindles. How do I know. I've used one. Being a crazed woodturner, I like to try my hand at turning on any lathe I can.

To purchase a lathe in similar quality and size of a Shopsmith you will need to spend no less than $1,500.00. The SS has a 16 1/4 inch swing, 1 1/8 HP, true variable speed. I have never been able to flex the way tubes on my SS while turning, I have turned out-of-round stock with no problem. Though the spindle turning capacity is 2 inches shorter on the Shopsmith, it turns spindles great. Don't forget the quality. The cheapest JET lathe that comes close to the quality and size of a Shopsmith will cost you about $1,800. Also, JET lathes have a reputation of having problems, especially with the motors and headstock spindles. You get what you pay for.

Comment if you want.

[pennview]

Woodburner, I would respond but then I'd have to start bashing Shopsmith. And I really don't want to do that. Suffice it to say that if you have one of those Jet lathes, I'll trade you a Shopsmith straight up.

[woodburner]

Hi Pennview,

First things first. Thank you for not bashing Shopsmith as I believe there is nothing to bash Shopsmith for.

Second, not sure what JET lathe you will want to trade a Shopsmith for (the cheap one or the $2,000 one).

Third, I already have two Shopsmiths (plus a ton of accessories, click on my name to read my public profile), a Laguna Platinum Lathe (for turning my 24-inch bowls and platters, and 47-inch spindles), a Delta Midi-Lathe (so I have a lathe to take on vacations and to club meetings), and a small pen-turning lathe (a gift from my wife). If you are curoius about the JET lathe in my photo, that lathe belongs to my woodturning club. I was doing a demo for them the day the photo was taken.

I don't need anymore large tools at this time, but thanks anyway.