Rebuilding the Infrastructure of a Mark V

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:37 pm

I have embarked on the creation of a 'Shorty'. Yes, I know this is nothing exciting as there are many of you who have done this already. As is usual for me, not everything is working out exactly as I would have it. That is why I am here; asking for advice.

Is it critical that the two way tubes be exactly the same length?

I'm thinking that if I seat the Way Tubes in the Tie Bar as they should be, that the slight difference in Way Tube length would be compensated for by not embedding the tubes equally into the Base Arm. When fully assembled, the Way Tubes would be equally exposed and parallel to one another.

Is it critical that the two bench tubes be exactly the same length?

I'm thinking the same way with the Bench Tubes. With them set tight against the built in stops in the Base, the difference can be adjusted for by positioning the Headrest for equal bench tube exposure. All you have to do here is make certain that the bench tubes do not interfere with the legs of the Extension Tables.

The length differences that I am dealing with are not enormous. I am working with differences on the order of 1/16" to 1/8". I used a pipe cutter and it walked on me. I don't know if it is my lack of skill with a pipe cutter or the characteristic of this sort of tool.

The tube lengths can be tweaked with a file if the consensus is that it should be done. I have not yet installed the Headstock.

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:45 pm

dusty wrote:I have embarked on the creation of a 'Shorty'. Yes, I know this is nothing exciting as there are many of you who have done this already. As is usual for me, not everything is working out exactly as I would have it. That is why I am here]The length differences that I am dealing with are not enormous. I am working with differences on the order of 1/16" to 1/8". I used a pipe cutter and it walked on me. I don't know if it is my lack of skill with a pipe cutter or the characteristic of this sort of tool.
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The tube lengths can be tweaked with a file if the consensus is that it should be done. I have not yet installed the Headstock.

Dusty when I created my OPR shorty I found two things that worked well. First I cut all four tubes by removing the same amount from one end. In my case I removed 12" then went back and removed a few more later. This assures correct spacing when rebuilding. Secondly I used a sharp pipe cutter. Thus all cuts were square and even, (no we did not have any crushing). I then used a file (round for inside and flat for outside) to remove burrs inside and out. Everything went back together perfectly. The one thing I learned much later is that reassembly works much better when done upside down. All is easier to reach and there is no tension on legs which tends to splay them out of proper alignment. Jim

reible · Post by **reible** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:05 pm

I've always been under the impression that in order to have a squared machine the bench tubes need to be fully seated and touching the ribs.

The way tubes can be slightly shorter as they can be centered when mounted.

If you are off too far the errors might catch up when you go up and down from/to drill press mode. If you can clamp it and still swing up and down you should be OK.

Ed

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:45 pm

I tried to ignore the differences by compensating as stated above. NO GO. I am too annal about things lining up that are suppose to line up. I dismantle and took a rasp and file to one of the bench tubes.

I worked upside down, Jim, as you recommended. In this position it was easy to make sure that I had the bench tubes up against their stops in the Base. I then mounted the Headrest and positioned it so that both tubes were exposed an equal amount. Theory being that this makes a perfect rectangle of the Base, the tubes and the Headrest.

An explanation that probably should have been done earlier:

My objective here is to build a 'Shorty' that will become residence for the Jointer while functioning with equal priority as the Drill Press. Changing to Drill Press mode has been the most frequent disruption of flow for me. This will give me a Jointer and Drill Press on a full time basis. Sliding the Headstock back and forth will be simple by comparison.

For projects where a Sanding Station would be most beneficial, I can sacrifice the Drill Press for Sanding Station.

With the Main Table there, the Mark V can be reverted back to a Table Saw if needed. I can't see that happening very often; however, I have taken the Crafters Station off site for renovation projects elsewhere. Now, it will be the 'Shorty' that gets relocated.

What will reside in that unoccupied position on the left end of the primary Mark V (where the Jointer has resided for years). I think that will be the Belt Sander (at least to start with). The Power Stand for the Belt Sander will then disappear from the shop. The 'Shorty" will occupy that floor space in the shop.

The Scroll Saw will be relocated to a part of the floor space that has been occupied by the Mark V that was just converted.

By the middle of the week I'll be back to making sawdust and looking for everything that is no longer where it has been.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:46 pm

reible wrote:I've always been under the impression that in order to have a squared machine the bench tubes need to be fully seated and touching the ribs.

The way tubes can be slightly shorter as they can be centered when mounted.

If you are off too far the errors might catch up when you go up and down from/to drill press mode. If you can clamp it and still swing up and down you should be OK.

Ed

Clamp what, Ed. What have I over looked?

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:53 pm

fjimp wrote:Dusty when I created my OPR shorty I found two things that worked well. First I cut all four tubes by removing the same amount from one end. In my case I removed 12" then went back and removed a few more later. This assures correct spacing when rebuilding. Secondly I used a sharp pipe cutter. Thus all cuts were square and even, (no we did not have any crushing). I then used a file (round for inside and flat for outside) to remove burrs inside and out. Everything went back together perfectly. The one thing I learned much later is that reassembly works much better when done upside down. All is easier to reach and there is no tension on legs which tends to splay them out of proper alignment. Jim

My cheap pipe cutter introduced what I believe JPG referred to as mushrooming. The outer diameter of the cut tubes was slightly larger than the original dimension. I took a flat file to that and then polished out the scratches left by the filing. The mushrooming, however, may be the result of poor technique. I have cut very little pipe before. Maybe none larger than 3/4".

reible · Post by **reible** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:11 pm

dusty wrote:Clamp what, Ed. What have I over looked?

If you can clamp it and still swing up and down you should be OK.

clamp = headrest lock

Ed

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:41 pm

reible wrote:If you can clamp it and still swing up and down you should be OK.

clamp = headrest lock

Ed

Gotcha. I have a bit of interference with the safety guard on the Jointer drive shaft but if I pay attention I can raise and lower the Tie Bar past the guard. If I get careless, I'll destroy the guard.

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:26 pm

dusty wrote:My cheap pipe cutter introducing what I believe JPG referred to as mushrooming. The outer diameter of the cut tubes was slightly larger than the original dimension. I took a flat file to that and then polished out the scratches left by the filing. The mushrooming, however, may be the result of poor technique. I have cut very little pipe before. Maybe none larger than 3/4".

When I did mine I had a friend who was a retired pipe fitter with an excellent quality pipe cutter that was extremely sharp (although he claimed it dull and worn out). My buddy was slow and careful in fact placing a few drops of oil on the pipes. I expressed concern that the process could crush or mushroom the tubes. He laughed and said "Never Gonna Happen!" After posting this several years ago I had a couple of people respond with comments thanking me and expressing how well it was working for them. I am sorry if that was not the case for you. Jim

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:00 pm

We need to recognize that a pipe cutter is intended for use as a plumbing pipe cutter and most likely that cut end will then be threaded which makes the creation of the 'mushroom' irrelevant.

The SS tubes are I believe a stronger steel, and therefore more resistant to machining. Considering the way a pipe cutter 'works' the mushrooming is inevitable. However if one has a good quality pipe cutter that has less tapered sides on the cutter(thinner) less mushrooming will occur. The cutter is actually pressing in against the pipe and the cutter sides are pushing the newly created surfaces out away from the cut.

I do not think minimal length deviation is important since the tubes can be positioned to compensate. However doing so means the way tubes will not be 'bottomed' out. That makes the set screws crucial. The bench tubes are not 'registered' against anything at their ends.

Like Ed has said, If it sets down and clamps and raises correctly, all should be well(as long as nothing loosens or moves).