camerio wrote:Canadians come to the US when they are really sick.
I believe that Canadian who go south for care, are the one that can afford to pay for the care they seek. It is not reimbursed by our Canadian health insurance. Some Canadians were sent south because there was too long list for some tests, the Canadian system then paid for that.
I do not believe you meant that Canadians who were seeking treatments in the US did not pay and Americans had to pay.
Agreed, I was refering to the issues of long waits you raised.
Paul Cohen
Beaverton, OR
A 1982 500 Shopsmith brand upgraded to a Mark 7 PowerPro, Jointer, Bandsaw (with Kreg fence), Strip Sander, Ring Master and lots of accessories all purchased new
12" Sliding Compound Mitre Saw, 1200 CFM DC
[quote="JPG40504"]Truth be told the 'plan' is far more complicated and far reaching than the choices given here(The choices are quite logical and appropriate for this poll).
I understand the wisdom in discouraging further comment so I will not go down that road.
Tis the road the 'leadership' of this country will travel that will prove more relevant to us all.]
I can not stay out of this either:(
A commenter here earlier criticized those of use who comment without reading the legislation. Fortunately someone else has pointed out how lengthy the text of the health care bill is, so I won't have to try and come up with a number forthat one. Early in my computer system development career, when systems were often over budget, I heard the phrase "if you cannot dazzle 'em with your brilliance, baffle 'em with your bull sh*t." Its is my belief that project managers that lived that life must have become politicians:D
Really though, if proposals are too complex to be understood, I cannot support them. I also have a hard time supporting politicians that do. It was just too massive to be digested by our representatives (if they were inclined to try). Long after the bill had been approved, I read some real analysis of the impact that was not just political hype.
The most recent large scale baffle 'em with... is the mortgage banking industry's loan bundling fiasco. I am afraid that is what we have now opened the door to a bigger mire.
In truth, I am not in you survey as I just do not know whether it is a good bill, a good intention yes. I think our courts have acted on this properly, but I want to review the dissenting views.
Sam in Northfield, MN
A day without beer......could have been better
Mark V 500 - S/N 100990, Mark V 510 - S/N missing, SS Band Saw, SS 6" Belt Sander, SS 4" Jointer, SS Scroll Saw, SS DC3300
I hope people realize that not having health insurance today doesn't mean you won't get health care. Hospitals in this country (excluding truly private hospitals) will treat anyone who walks into or who is brought into the emergency room, regardless of ability to pay. If you're sick, they will admit you and they will treat you. They will try to collect payment, but if you can't pay they will absorb the cost. And, they won't ask you anything about your citizenship.
As far as reading the Affordable Health Care Act legislation, I have a copy and have tried, but it make little sense because it is filled with rules for creating boards and panels in the future that will do this or that and make recommendations and set guidelines for treatment, and allows the Secretary of Health to establish policies for health care.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see how this affects things, but I'm thinking it won't be pretty when health care is controlled by the same folks who run the Department of Motor Vehicles.
paulmcohen wrote:It starts there and goes up but that is the issue. What is already happening is companies and individuals are dropping their insurance and paying the TAX. A good friend is a health insurance broker and they had a huge number of healthy people call yesterday and today to CANCEL their insurance. Why have insurance, if they get sick they apply and get accepted and now we all pay for their irresponsible behavior.
Before you purchased insurance when you were healthy so that if you got sick you had insurance, now you can wait until you get sick then buy "insurance".
People were calling yesterday canceling their insurance Better not get sick before it takes effect in 2014.
"companies and individuals are dropping their insurance and paying the TAX." I have heard about this but what I don't understand , even without the law, what stops a company just dropping the insurance anyway to save money. Why do they need the healthcare law to drop employees insurance?
"Prove to all the world Metal rules the land"
-Judas Priest, Heavy Duty.
cincinnati wrote:People were calling yesterday canceling their insurance Better not get sick before it takes effect in 2014.
"companies and individuals are dropping their insurance and paying the TAX." I have heard about this but what I don't understand , even without the law, what stops a company just dropping the insurance anyway to save money. Why do they need the healthcare law to drop employees insurance?
I thought that part of the bill became effective immediately but that is not why I am posting.
With regard to those who cancel their insurance or have no insurance, who pays the doctor, the hospital, the lab, the xray technician....etc. Who pays the bills.
This same question applies to undocumented residents. I know the pat answer....the tax payer ultimately pays. But who initially writes a check and to whom to pay these bills. Somewhere along the line money changes accounts or pay checks stop coming in.
"Making Sawdust Safely" Dusty
Sent from my Dell XPS using Firefox.
Dusty, you know who pays the bills -- everyone that pays, pays for those that don't. The hospitals just write it off as bad debt. It's build into the system. There are those who don't pay because they are unfortunate and can't make ends meet, and then there is the group that I refer to as the Jerry Springer crowd. They make bad personal choices all their lives and everyone else pays their way.
The only thing That keeps being demonstrated over time by people is that no matter what, this will cost more to the taxpayer. My huge gripe is that we Are already indebted as a country. I work for a financial institution so I'm a bit tainted about debt. No matter what any politician tells me there is no way I will believe that the costs for covering the currently uninsured will not add to that debt regardless of any Tax being paid. And it's not anyone on this forum who will be responsible for paying it, or the repercussions for not paying it, it's our kids and grand kids.
17 trillion is a huge number and growing.
You're absolutely right, Bill. And I believe Obama Care simply adds another disincentive among a growing list of disincentives fostering irresponsibility.
The idea of canceling your insurance until you get sick because the law now guarantees that you can't be refused is perfect example how people think. They are going to beat the system. It seems everyone is out to beat the system.
Walk into most hospital ER waiting rooms. They will be filled with people "beating the system". If they have a cold and go to the doctor the doctor will want payment now. However if they go to the hospital their insurance will pay or they will be billed later.
Why is medical costs so high because, Drug companies, medical equipment companies, Hospitals and etc have learned how to beat the system.
What people don't understand is you and I are the "system".
The whole concept is based on the idea the well will never go dry and the one that dies with the most money or toys wins.
Costs are out of control and frankly I think the only thing that will bring them down is a total collapse of our financial system. People will once again learn how to bake their own bread because they simply won't have the $3 to buy a loaf. It may get so bad that people will barter with the farmer to get the wheat to bake the bread.
Better not get sick before it takes effect in 2014.
