Bandsaw Blade Tracking Adjustments Etc.

[billmayo]

You couldn't pay me enough for me to try the urethane "glueless" tires again.

I had problems when the urethane tires first came out. If the bandsaw blade got too hot, it would imbed into the tire and/or the tire got too hot and slipped off the wheel. I stayed with the black tires until recently when their price more than doubled making them almost as expensive as the urethane tires. Recently, I glued (3M spray 77?) a couple sets of non-shopsmith .125" urethane tires that I installed with no reported failures at this time. I never checked if the 3M spray really stuck to the urethane tires but hope it did.

[keakap]

... I almost wish I hadn't gotten out the Manual, 'cause I see in it notes to self at some of the adjustments (like guides!) saying "could not get". Has to do with depth of cut being not 6" but a little more than 5. And stuff like that.
And now I put on the new wheels, and new 1/2" blade, and almost nothing lines up ...
Amazing to see how much fatter the black tires are than the urethane, how irregular that thickness, and how they are not glued to the wheels. ...
Btw, tires so fat the blade doesn't come close to the center of the lower guide bearing, and blade rubs on upper guide block housing-with (square) block removed.
This outta be fu--, uh, that is, interesting.......

1) adj's I "could not get"; "depth of cut 5" not 6; "nothing lines up;----
ALL attributable to one thing. When new I went thru all the adjustments. One I could not get was the post lateral position. This cause the post to hit the casting when at top, not allowing more than a 5" depth of cut. The best I got was to center the blade on the guide bearings. The old tire and the new urethane were about same thickness, so when changed the post adj was not a factor.
But the new tires are fatter. Enough to bother me (blade not on center of bearing).
I went to the post adjust (lateral) and DISCOVered that I'd been timid with the original try, on the NEW machine, and a small burr on the casting stopped travel of the block, until I loosened the bolts a wee tad more and the block "popped" loose and slid to the right, plenty enough to get the adjustments anywhere I want them, AND gave me, for the first time, a full 6" cut!

-- turns out the tires ARE glued to the wheels. Fairly well done on the bottom. Relief. But what made me think they weren't glued on was the top. A quick look showed some bulging spots around the circumference while turning by hand. Poking, pushing and pecking at the tire to see whassup revealed some big (as in beeg!) blobs o glue causing the lumps, and there were some glue-starved areas which allowed the tire to be pulled up (like peeking under the cover). But it was, technically, glued. And it appears to be done well enough to prevent sliding. So I'll remove the lumps- only- and go on.

As for the variable thickness, some R ampant S peculation is in order. Staring straight at the rim- from the front of the saw- (I can take pics) - while hand turning one sees the tire has narrow areas (waist like). Looking at the side of the wheel there appear to be "thin" spots in the tire thickness (sitting here now I'm uncertain if they correspond to the "waists"; I assume so).
'R-S' : when the glue was applied and the tire stretched onto the rim- with the aid of 2 or 3 clamps, whose indentations are still showing in the rubber- it was not stretched uniformally, thus the "waists". Maybe the glue was setting up too quickly?
The bottom wheel gets a quicker leaner look. I don't consider it as critical, for one thing, and I'm tired of bending over to look at it, for another. It seems to be okay 'nuf.

I repeat, I don't consider the new parts to be a problem at all. I'll tweak 'em, maybe, out of sheer nit-pickedness, but I consider them my Shiny New Standards. The lumps and stuff-- no big thing, cosmetic, yada yada.

I also got a set of the original blocks. They go in soooo easy, line up soooo easy. I'll retain the Cool Blocks for the very small blades. I never really had a problem with the originals except for the wee bitty blades, anyhoo.

Other adjustments went smoothly (some almost by themselves).

My lesson learned (again) : when I get ready to do adjustments, it will be with all necessary tools at hand (one of which will be a file), and I will start by loosening up EVERYthing until it moves from top to bottom and side to side freely. "Tweak" will be erased from my Shop Smith lexicon.

[billmayo]

My original attempts with the bandsaw tires was similar. The Adhesive for the bandsaw tire left lumps in spots, no easy way to spread the Adhesive. Straifgening th tire got uneven tire disbrution along the wheel. My solutiom was to straight the tire around the wheel, Then use a 3/4" roller between the tire and wheel and roll completely around the wheel to eve out the tire, no grue or spray, Then I sprayed the 3M spray 77 behind the roller as I twisted the roller around the wheekl and srayed the belt and wheel between tight roller No lumps using the 3m spray

[keakap]

I...
how important is blade tension referenced to the SS bandsaw presets?
...

Lastly, rubber or neoprene tires (guess this is question #3)?

1) Tension: SS Manual states it's ok to go ONE step higher for small blades (i.e. 1/4 blade tighten to 3/8 setting NO HIGHER), but is most adamant that 3/8 or larger blades should NEVER be tightened beyond their native settings.

2) Interesting note on rubber tires: (be aware this was printed before urethane tires came along for SS BS)- if old tires get too chewed up or loose on wheel, replace WHEELS. [Note, Benny: the new wheels come with new rubber tires attached.]

[keakap]

Yes. I think that too much tension, especially for a long time, may cause the upper wheel to lean forward. This would eventually cause a tracking issue or even the blade coming off the wheel.

On the other hand, properly tensioned - I do not believe that leaving the blade tensioned when not in use will create a problem. I have done that for as long as I have owned the two Shopsmith bandsaws.

I know there are many out there that disagree and I am not going to debate it. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

My long time practice has been to loosen the tension (ex.: on 1/2 blade, back off adj. 6 turns) when not in use. For good reason: I couldn't think of, or find, a good reason Not to.
However, the SS Manual has no mention, that I could find, of loosening when idle. It does not appear to be an issue from that direction.
I'll continue to loosen at idle, if I happen to think of it, but I will not lose any sleep over the issue one way or t'other.

[keakap]

My original attempts with the bandsaw tires was similar. The Adhesive for the bandsaw tire left lumps in spots, no easy way to spread the Adhesive. Straifgening th tire got uneven tire disbrution along the wheel. My solutiom was to straight the tire around the wheel, Then use a 3/4" roller between the tire and wheel and roll completely around the wheel to eve out the tire, no grue or spray, Then I sprayed the 3M spray 77 behind the roller as I twisted the roller around the wheekl and srayed the belt and wheel between tight roller No lumps using the 3m spray

That process sounds so good- and clever- I almost wish the new wheels had not come with tires pre-mounted sos I could try it myself..
Almost wish.
Yeah, right.

[jimthej]

My long time practice has been to loosen the tension (ex.: on 1/2 blade, back off adj. 6 turns) when not in use. For good reason: I couldn't think of, or find, a good reason Not to.
However, the SS Manual has no mention, that I could find, of loosening when idle. It does not appear to be an issue from that direction.
I'll continue to loosen at idle, if I happen to think of it, but I will not lose any sleep over the issue one way or t'other.

Loosening the tension was frequently advised at the Traveling Academy. The reason given was that leaving the tension on affects the cant (back tilt) of the upper wheel.

[keakap]

Loosening the tension was frequently advised at the Traveling Academy. The reason given was that leaving the tension on affects the cant (back tilt) of the upper wheel.

Aha. Interesting.
The 'reason' is sorta sensible, almost instinctive one might say. One would need to be skeptical of the quality or integrity of the materials used, however.

But then I must wonder why SS didn't make the correction to the manual. And I have to consider, when pondering that matter, the source of the caution: we are now dealing with shop "chatter" versus the official printed guide.
In other words, the plop thickens.

I sometimes think SS should open an archeology department. This trip into history is fascinating.
And I can't hep thinking what a relatively boring experience being a ShopSmith owner without these forums (I know, it should be "fori", but some people who wear glasses get offended...)
;-)

[reible]

I'll not comment but just post this picture, it kind of says it all.

[ATTACH]18189[/ATTACH]

Ed

[keakap]

I'll not comment but just post this picture, it kind of says it all.

[ATTACH]18189[/ATTACH]

Ed

Well, not quite "all".
What it doesn't say is that the older manual doesn't say the same thing-- it doesn't even use the "Caution" graphic; it doesn't even mention 1/16 and 5/8 blades (didn't exist then); and it certainly says nothing about releasing blade tension when finish operating.

I think if a manual were really to say it all, it would simply say "do not rely on the information in this manual".

But anyhoo, all that's a minor point. What's important is that the manual now agrees with the Traveling Salvation Show (thank you Nigel Dingman). And thank you for posting the info! I will now definitely "release" each time. I can afford the three seconds or so...