Another Sawstop type lawsuit

[brad_nalor]

Rarely use them on the smaller table saws. I heed caution ALL the time but then again have been around this stuff for 30 years. Know your machine and double check your fence alignment / clamp, the stock being cut, proper technique. Not to rip (pun) anyone but have witnessed some bad operators in cabinet shops! Therein is the problem. Makes me cringe.

That said, I would heed extra caution on the large industrial high HP saws and sliding table type as the character of them is much different during the cut. The design of the guards are better made and more developed so prefer them left on for these.

Added edit: ALL manufacturers SHOULD make a blaze orange colored label, cast, blow molded or other into the machine that reads - DO NOT REMOVE GUARD OR ANY SAFETY DEVICE under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ON THIS SAW! Now wouldn't that cover it from more of these frivolous lawsuits?

[backhertz]

People do the darnedest things. A friend of mine was being taught by his father how to use a circular saw safely. I have no idea how, but his father lost a couple of fingers that day. Cut em right off right after the Woodstock festival- I lived only 5 miles away from the dairy farm. Seems like it was yesterday.

I'm a believer in using tools in a safe manner as it only takes one time and almost anything can happen. I have a brother-in-law who disabled the safety on his framing nailer. He's shot himself twice. One time through his hand; another time through his foot. But he is the type to simply get a paper towel and some electrical tape and get back to work.

I heard that there has been one case, maybe more of the Saw Stop injuring a person. I do not know if that is simply a rumor or a fact. Technology has resulted most likely in every one of us on this forum in one way or another being still alive or complete with everything we were born with.

Seat belts were controversial to some many years ago, but who gets in a car anymore without buckling up? I believe anything simple that can be done to reduce the chance of an accident should always be done. I have mixed emotions about the SawStop. There are some people who need a tool like that as they are accidents waiting to happen. Conversely, there are many who follow the directions and understand the purpose and need for safety guards and never disabling safety devices just because.

There are other ways to achieve safety prior to actual flesh sensing technology in my humble opinion. But I would suggest doing something prior to the point of a finger or a hot dog triggering the destruction of a saw blade and a part of the safety mechanism that absorbs all that energy. I like the Whirlwind idea which appears to be good- I've never actually seen one. I have heard a Saw Stop & it scared the you know what out of me. I have a DVR motor on my Shopsmith and when I turn it off, the blade stops quicker than any electronic brake tool I have owned/used. I think the DVR/PowerPro might be easily modified with what I'll simply refer to as the Shopsmith Pro Stop or something like that.

I hate seeing anyone get needlessly injured. But from what I understand, even the Saw Stop can be bypassed when cutting green/wet wood. But then an accident occurs, now what? Safety is paramount whenever using any woodworking tool. But there is nothing to protect against someone who decides to defeat or not use the built-in safety features of any tool.

One thing that might help is mandatory training on the safe operation and use of any power tool. We accept training for driving. We accept training for using firearms. When purchasing a tool, how difficult would it be to have an area where tools are set up and people can get a 10-15 minute safety briefing/demonstration? We can buy anything and be using it in 5 minutes after getting home without reading any directions and an oops occurs.

I honestly don't know the answer. But I do not agree with being mandated to use only one manufacturer's tool which is not going to be 100% effective. It mainly depends on people following the rules. Look at the Autobahn in Germany. Between major cities there are no speed limits if the weather and traffic permit it. Why can't that be done in this country? There is usually nothing left of a vehicle after a rare high-speed crash (180mph) on the Autobahn. Nobody is sued to my knowledge. People are aware of the risks and life goes on.

We do things our own way in this country which is something to celebrate, but it only takes one disaster before anything happens and when it does look out! The knee-jerk approach and the litigation begins and politicians see an opportunity to be heard and protect us from ourselves! Well from what I understand it was only one person who was seriously injured in MA which became the basis for the SawStop.

Someone had to be blamed...Ryobi- not the person who was not using the table saw safely in accordance with manufacturer instructions and was injured. I also understand the poor guy admitted he wasn't using the tool properly, so I fail to understand how the manufacturer ever got blamed. This is something that fails what I call the common-sense test. eye, ye, ye... I have to stop writing as I have better things to do.

One good thing though about the Saw Stop, I was able to pick up a 510 with a complete Incra system, a planer, a joiner, a biscuit jointer & two boxes of other stuff for a price so low that made me keep looking to see if the police were after me. The seller just lost confidence in his Shopsmith because he felt it had safety issues and simply wanted a SawStop. Accidents will continue to happen, but many can be prevented without much effort if people follow the manufacturer safe operation instructions?

[joedw00]

I removed mine right after got it. I don't know where it is now.

[lightnin]

I bought my table saw new it never had a guard that I remember. I never felt unsafe...
I grew up around machinery and was taught to respect it. Eyes on task mind on task.
Think it through before power on. Look for hazards before power on loose clothes etc.
My dad could get upset when little things went wrong, as I think we all do.
Once in his garage he knocked something over and broke it. Before he turned on the
lathe he lit up a smoke sat down and said you gotta get relaxed before run a machine.
He didn't seem to think that way about hand tools, I learned to be a true artist of
foul language watching him change hacksaw blades and other such small annoyances.

[tgamel]

I'm just wondering if there's anyone here who has never removed the blade guard on their table saw? I don't mean that they're currently using the guard, but rather, that they have ALWAYS used the available blade guard ever since they started woodworking.

"Hi, my name is Todd, and I am a non-guard using table saw operator." The first step to knowing you have a problem is to admit it right? I must admit that I am a bad woodworker, those pesky saw/blade guards that go on top of the table saw just make it plain hard to see your cut line and frankly they get in the way.

Like many others, I first tried to use these devices and have always done so the first few times I operate a new saw, but I have always found them to be frustrating and a nuisance. Not having the guard in place makes me more careful (of course I could be deluding myself) and I am paranoid of the saw blade and always use a push bar and or stick. Now I am not saying that I have not shot a board or two out of the back of the saw, but fortunately I still have all my fingers and have had no major accidents.

I think that if you respect the machine and follow proper technique you should have no problems. I think the real issues occur when people get lazy and sloppy with their technique when using their saw.

Todd

[dusty]

You may be right Todd. I just hope that you continue in your good fortune forever. The guards do get in the way some times but they do help (but only if they are installed).

I don't use mine all of the time either but I operate with a heightened awareness when the guards are off.

[jppickett]

When I went to school (50 years ago) our school saws didn't have guards on them. We were taught to build a 6 inch box in our mind around the saw blade and never let a body part enter that box ever. I've never used the guards because I was taught differently . I don't let my kids and grand kids to use my saws because they don't have guards.

[Gampa]

The main reason I came to the forum today was to ask if people were using their sawguards. My wife is addicted to watching home improvement shows. They never seem to use the saw guards. Many times they have inexperienced homeowners using power tools with no guards. I cringe everytime. It just looks like a recipe for disaster.

I know I try to use the guards when ever possible. Especially after having gotten lucky a couple of times when not using them. Due to a severe sleep disorder on bad days I don't go anywhere near my shop and at other times I think it leaves me not always thinking clearly and I do stupid stuff. There fore as I have gotten older safety guards have become necessary. I love my hobby and don't want to give it up or lose any body parts.

I know a couple of posts on the forum show laser safety system in use that they say is adaptable to preexisting machines. If that were an upgrade for the SS I would crack open my wallet immediatly.


How about it ShopSmith?

[algale]

I used to be a guy who needed to "see the cut" and took the guard/splitter assembly completely off my first table saw. I saw the cut alright; I also missed it a lot.

Over time, I have become a big believer not only in guards but especially riving knives. Now I use my Shopsmith upper guard/riving knife combination whenever possible (any through cut except (1) extremely narrow rips where the blade guard is too wide and (2) tilted table bevels where the blade guard tends to want to "fall" into the blade). I just bought the Shopsmith non-through cut riving knife for those few cuts where I can't use the blade guard, so there will always be a riving knife on my saw from now on.

Using the blade guard requires getting used to. Instead of trying to "see the cut," which can be difficult through the blade guard, I trust a well aligned machine and careful measurements to make my cuts.

For rips, that means measuring very carefully from the fence to the blade, and the use of feather boards wherever possible. Once I'm set up to rip, I mostly concentrate on keeping the work flush to the fence. If a rip cut is absolutely critical, I will cut a test piece to ensure my set up is accurate.

For cross cuts, I like a sacrificial fence on the face of my miter gauge and then lining up my cut line with the saw kerf in the sacrificial fence. I find this is much more accurate for me than trying to "see the cut." Do I occasionally still make mistakes? Sure. But I find I hit my mark more often when I work this way than I did back when I tried to "see the cut."

For those that must "see the cut," I hope you are at least installing a splitter/riving knife (Shopsmith or some after market brand). Together with a well set up saw, I believe a splitter/riving knife is the most important factor in preventing kickbacks.

[backhertz]

Oh, I forgot to mention something stupid I did once because I had never operated a radial arm saw. I was making a trophy plaque for a set of horns for a friend. I figured I didn't need to hold the wood against the rear fence & simply held it by hand & thought if I slowly cut the angles on the plaque, all would be fine. Well, as soon as the first tooth caught the wood, that 8" x 6" or so piece of wood became a projectile. I was in a wood hobby shop with about 6 other people. That piece of wood shot out of my hand and back into the rear cement wall with so much force, it shot forward, missing me & hitting the front wall 40 feet away. I was immediately trained on using the RAS safely. The guy operating the shop simply told me to go ahead & use it, a$$uming I knew how to... I did too.

I like the 6" box rule. I know my reflexes are not as fast as they once were. I have ripped a lot of wood and knew enough to stand to the side in case something kicks back which occasionally happens.

I don't smoke, but I double check everything before I turn the power on. But being a woodworkers forum, am I correct in saying that a table saw is not usually used for making finish cuts? I usually just use my tape measure to measure off a tooth at the front and rear of the blade to the fence. I rarely make a mark on the wood itself when using the table saw & just set the blade height not very high above the wood. If I'm making something good, I'll use the joiner to give me a good edge. When I use the chop saw, I'll mark a line on the wood & take the line when I cut. I just do what I have to & don't have any set rule other than being safe & trying not to do anything stupid.