The Presidential Debate
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curiousgeorge
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IMHO a vote for any "third party" candidate is the same as a vote for Obama. Just think about it. If you aren't for Obama you should vote for someone who has a realistic chance of winning. Otherwise your vote is a total waste and what have you accomplished in the long run?
George
Ft. Worth, TX.
Go TCU Froggies
Ft. Worth, TX.
Go TCU Froggies
The only WASTED VOTE is the one cast for mitt.
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I remember an article I read several years ago in which a socialist was interviewed. He was asked why his political party no longer existed in the USA. He countered that with the Democrats embracing all of the positions of his original party there was no need for it.
That thought combined with living thru the Democrats doing away with my business so they can take over the health insurance industry I am left with no choice but to vote Republican. Tax and spend dem's leave me cold. Jim
That thought combined with living thru the Democrats doing away with my business so they can take over the health insurance industry I am left with no choice but to vote Republican. Tax and spend dem's leave me cold. Jim
F. Jim Parks
Lakewood, Colorado:)
When the love of power is replaced by the power of love the world will have a chance for survival.
Lakewood, Colorado:)
When the love of power is replaced by the power of love the world will have a chance for survival.
Please don't take it personally guys, but the last two posts (edit: before fjimp's) show the effectiveness of the Dem and Rep parties fear campaign. "A vote for anybody but our guy is automatically a vote for that other guy who is so much worse than our guy!" Republicans say a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Obama. Democrats say a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Romney. Oooh.... scary! Don't stray to another party or the party you like even less than ours will win!!
Hogwash.
This isn't a horse race. We're not trying to guess who the winner with our vote.
A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Gary Johnson. A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Jill Stein. A vote for Obama is a vote for Obama. A vote for Romney is a vote for Romney.
True, only one of those last 2 names will win. But if you voted for McCain 4 years ago, was your vote wasted? If you voted for Kerry 4 years before that, was your vote wasted? If you voted for Gore 4 years before that, was your vote wasted? No. And it won't be wasted if the person you vote for doesn't win this time either.
But consider this. If Gary Johnson pulls 5% of the vote, the Libertarian Party will qualify for matching Federal campaign funds in 2016 of millions of dollars. Which means more media exposure which means higher poll numbers which means inclusion in the debates which could all lead to the breaking of the Republican/Democrat duopoly.
A vote for a candidate that loses is not a wasted vote. It doesn't matter what the party is. And with the two parties being essentially the same (higher debt, bigger government, more wars, and less liberty), there is nothing to lose and great gain to be had by voting 3rd party.
I'll try to get off my soapbox now...
Hogwash.
This isn't a horse race. We're not trying to guess who the winner with our vote.
A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Gary Johnson. A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Jill Stein. A vote for Obama is a vote for Obama. A vote for Romney is a vote for Romney.
True, only one of those last 2 names will win. But if you voted for McCain 4 years ago, was your vote wasted? If you voted for Kerry 4 years before that, was your vote wasted? If you voted for Gore 4 years before that, was your vote wasted? No. And it won't be wasted if the person you vote for doesn't win this time either.
But consider this. If Gary Johnson pulls 5% of the vote, the Libertarian Party will qualify for matching Federal campaign funds in 2016 of millions of dollars. Which means more media exposure which means higher poll numbers which means inclusion in the debates which could all lead to the breaking of the Republican/Democrat duopoly.
A vote for a candidate that loses is not a wasted vote. It doesn't matter what the party is. And with the two parties being essentially the same (higher debt, bigger government, more wars, and less liberty), there is nothing to lose and great gain to be had by voting 3rd party.
I'll try to get off my soapbox now...
Heath
Central Louisiana
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Central Louisiana
-10ER - SN 13927, Born 1949, Acquired October 2008, Restored November, 2008
-10ER - SN 35630, Born 1950, Acquired April 2009, Restored May 2009, A34 Jigsaw
-Mark V - SN 212052, Born 1986, Acquired Sept 2009, Restored March 2010, Bandsaw
-10ER - SN 39722, Born 1950, Acquired March 2011, awaiting restoration
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davebodner
- Gold Member
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- Location: Arlington, VA
http://socialistparty-usa.net/fjimp wrote:I remember an article I read several years ago in which a socialist was interviewed. He was asked why his political party no longer existed in the USA. He countered that with the Democrats embracing all of the positions of his original party there was no need for it.
That thought combined with living thru the Democrats doing away with my business so they can take over the health insurance industry I am left with no choice but to vote Republican. Tax and spend dem's leave me cold. Jim
Well, the premise is flawed. The US Socialist Party lives. And, they're not Democrats. Let's get this straight, folks. Democrats aren't socialists, and Republicans aren't fascists.
Jim, I don't know what business you're in, but the insurance business lives. I don't see how making everyone buy insurance equates to a takeover of the industry.
Dusty,dusty wrote:I don't know how or when it happened but it seems we have become serfs. We now all work for the benefit of the Government and I don't believe it is supposed to be that way. The Government does work for the People...Right?
WRONG! Not with the current Congress. No One is working for the People.
Very true indeed!
Jack
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terrydowning
- Platinum Member
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- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:26 pm
- Location: Windsor, CO
Just my Opinion
I don't often weigh in on political posts, but I feel I should share my opinion.
I find it unfortunate that "Presidential" politics and the argument over which candidate is better A or B overshadows the important parts of voting.
I live in California and it's a foregone conclusion that Obama will take this state by means of the electoral college. Good or Bad doesn't matter like or don't like doesn't matter. It's just the way it is.
I have heard the past performance argument, I have heard all of the arguments. I don't care for either Obama or Romney so I will vote for neither. I still don't even know who I will cast my vote for the office of President of the United States. But I will cast a vote and it is never wasted.
Now here's the important part. In my Voting District there are about 40 other things Federal, State and Local up for vote. Bond issues for State and County, tax issues, state constitutional amendments, state laws, etc. As well as numerous offices. These are things that truly impact my life as they determine whether my roads get fixed, schools are funded, streets are cleaned, parks are maintained, and whether or not I have more or less discretionary income, etc. I make sure to vote at every election and not just the "Big One". I have learned that who sits in the oval office is not really an issue in my personal day to day life. Every president has done good and bad they are only human after all and they do live and work in a very regimented world of checks and balances. I can remember "End of the world as we know it" prophesies surrounding every president since I have been alive and yet the country still keeps chugging along so I really don't give a hoot who wins the presidency as it really won't impact me on a personal level the way the state and local issues will.
Get out and VOTE! I don't care what your political affiliation is or who or what you vote for. Just GET OUT THERE AND VOTE!! Make sure your neighbors vote, volunteer to drive an elderly person to the polls, voting is the only viable means "We The People" give our consent to be governed.
I served this country for too many years NOT to vote and I know way to many that gave way too much to allow me and other citizens the privilege of participating in this great Experiment of a federal republic based on democratic principles.
For anyone who can vote to actively not vote is a betrayal so large to the men and women who have given so much to allow us perform this simple yet sacred duty, that it borders on treason.
Please remember those who made voting possible and go to the polls, there is no such thing as a wasted vote, every single one is counted and matters.
Most importantly, voting is the best possible way to remember those who made it possible.
I find it unfortunate that "Presidential" politics and the argument over which candidate is better A or B overshadows the important parts of voting.
I live in California and it's a foregone conclusion that Obama will take this state by means of the electoral college. Good or Bad doesn't matter like or don't like doesn't matter. It's just the way it is.
I have heard the past performance argument, I have heard all of the arguments. I don't care for either Obama or Romney so I will vote for neither. I still don't even know who I will cast my vote for the office of President of the United States. But I will cast a vote and it is never wasted.
Now here's the important part. In my Voting District there are about 40 other things Federal, State and Local up for vote. Bond issues for State and County, tax issues, state constitutional amendments, state laws, etc. As well as numerous offices. These are things that truly impact my life as they determine whether my roads get fixed, schools are funded, streets are cleaned, parks are maintained, and whether or not I have more or less discretionary income, etc. I make sure to vote at every election and not just the "Big One". I have learned that who sits in the oval office is not really an issue in my personal day to day life. Every president has done good and bad they are only human after all and they do live and work in a very regimented world of checks and balances. I can remember "End of the world as we know it" prophesies surrounding every president since I have been alive and yet the country still keeps chugging along so I really don't give a hoot who wins the presidency as it really won't impact me on a personal level the way the state and local issues will.
Get out and VOTE! I don't care what your political affiliation is or who or what you vote for. Just GET OUT THERE AND VOTE!! Make sure your neighbors vote, volunteer to drive an elderly person to the polls, voting is the only viable means "We The People" give our consent to be governed.
I served this country for too many years NOT to vote and I know way to many that gave way too much to allow me and other citizens the privilege of participating in this great Experiment of a federal republic based on democratic principles.
For anyone who can vote to actively not vote is a betrayal so large to the men and women who have given so much to allow us perform this simple yet sacred duty, that it borders on treason.
Please remember those who made voting possible and go to the polls, there is no such thing as a wasted vote, every single one is counted and matters.
Most importantly, voting is the best possible way to remember those who made it possible.
--
Terry
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Terry
Copy and paste the URLs into your browser if you want to see the photos.
1955 Shopsmith Mark 5 S/N 296860 Workshop and Tools
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Public Photos of Projects
http://sdrv.ms/MaXNLX
Terry, thanks for you input on this important subject. But, you are forgetting about one important aspect that will affect you and yours -- health care.
The Affordable Care Act, better known as Obama care, will have a major impact on all members of this forum.
Seniors will find that cutting $716 billion from Medicare through lower payments to hospitals and health-care providers means only one thing -- fewer doctors willing to take on Medicare patients or limiting the number the do see.
Cuts in federal subsidies for Medicare Advantage participants were to take place this month, but Health and Human Services has dumped billions into a "study" so that Medicare Advantage members will not see the effects of the cuts until after the election. Here's a short video regarding the cuts in Medicare Advanage -- http://my.brainshark.com/The-President- ... -356086344 --
Folks have two choices in two weeks -- Obama or Romney. In my view, solace derived from voting for a third-party candidate will be short lived in relation to the reality of a President Romney or Obama for the next four years.
The Affordable Care Act, better known as Obama care, will have a major impact on all members of this forum.
Seniors will find that cutting $716 billion from Medicare through lower payments to hospitals and health-care providers means only one thing -- fewer doctors willing to take on Medicare patients or limiting the number the do see.
Cuts in federal subsidies for Medicare Advantage participants were to take place this month, but Health and Human Services has dumped billions into a "study" so that Medicare Advantage members will not see the effects of the cuts until after the election. Here's a short video regarding the cuts in Medicare Advanage -- http://my.brainshark.com/The-President- ... -356086344 --
Folks have two choices in two weeks -- Obama or Romney. In my view, solace derived from voting for a third-party candidate will be short lived in relation to the reality of a President Romney or Obama for the next four years.
Art in Western Pennsylvania