The Presidential Debate

[JPG]

Well said, Terry!!!

[cincinnati]

I have my political views (and they are strong) but rarely feel the need to just give my point of view just out of the blue. When asked, I will make my point and that's it. No need to argue. Everyone's situation is different. They will have reasons to vote for one or the other and I understand and respect that.

I get a kick out of all the stuff "friends" post about the "Other" candidate on Facebook. #1 Like they think people care what they think. #2 Most of the stuff they post, if they took two seconds to check the facts, are 1/2 way false or just outright wrong. Makes them look foolish.
I have a lady I use to work with on FB. She is so wound up over this election she just post some of the most ridiculous stuff. I bet she makes 20 or 25 political post a day. Again, they look so foolish and sad they don't even realize it.

[Ed in Tampa]

Seniors will find that cutting $716 billion from Medicare through lower payments to hospitals and health-care providers means only one thing -- fewer doctors willing to take on Medicare patients or limiting the number the do see.

While I'm no fan of Obama or Obamacare I disagree with your conclusion.

The American health care industry has run amuck. We are paying many times over what other countries pay for the same medicine. We are forced to have prescriptions for drugs that are commonly sold over the counter in most other countries. And we are paying drug companies exorbitant prices under the guise of Research when in fact many of the drugs used public funding in the their research and development.

The smartest thing health insurance companies can do is to seek to make their payment schedules with doctors and hospitals line up with what Medicare pays. It would be foolish for them to pay $200 when Medicare only pays $100.

Doctors will then have the choice of taking what is offered or finding another way to make a living.

Plus Medicare is stopping some of this unnecessary testing and procedures that some doctors are so willing prescribe getting kick back from lab and drug companies to do so.

[fjimp]

The gentleman who responded to my post is yet to understand the full impact of The new health care act. First they limited the profit structure of health insurance carriers. This had the effect of significantly reducing the number of people employed by health insurance companies including independent agents. Which is why I was forced to retire. I know the old argument that some insurance agents lacked integrity. Which I can attest to as I have assisted many people to right wrongs created either by misinformed carrier employees or similarly misinformed agents. My ethics were my greatest asset. When the democratic party passed that 2,800+ page law, they threw the health care system into total disarray. I have a four drawer file cabinet full of opinions related to the rules of the road for that legislation and the highly frequent changes to those publications. The bottom line being that I really don't believe anyone truly knows or fully understands the rules or the future of health care in our nation. I do know that at age 70 I feel I lack the patience or understanding to advise my clients. In addition to that my income due to the regulations has dropped to a point where I could no longer show a profit. Time to retire.

As to the Medicare portion of the new legislation. My wife and I made the mistake of relocating from Virgina to Colorado over two years ago. We quickly discovered that very few physicians have any interest at all in adding Medicare aged patients to their practices. Those that do seem to pay lip service to treating us. Without going into detail, I fail to see how the limitations in fees paid to medical providers of medicare aged patients will allow decent treatment for our ills. I have a cousin that is a huge Obama supporter. I listen to the rhetoric emanating from that persons lips and their opinions regarding their choices in their manner of receiving medial care. I also wonder if any of us have a prayer of receiving decent care for a fair price or if all of the care will be reserved for our nations political leaders. I do believe that the only wasted votes are those not cast. I have said to much, I have already voted and will place my well worn soap box in the deepest, darkest corner of the proverbial closet. Jim

[davebodner]

Wow, I've been called a gentleman. I think I'll savor that. Though I continue to disagree, I do thank you for your sane and rational post.

I don't know the details, but I can only assume you're correct regarding the economics of independent agents. Your losing your job is bad. That sucks, and I hope you're in a position where your retirement will support you (and your woodworking habits). But, if your loss is because of a reduction in administrative overhead across the insurance industry, then, arguably, we have a net plus for the US overall. Cold-hearted, I know, and it won't be of much comfort to you, personally.

The Medicare payment scheme still needs to be fixed. Specialists get paid too much compared to generalists. Fix that, and a lot of problems, including not being able to find a doctor who takes Medicare, will be alleviated. We'll also see a lot more newly minted family physicians rather than all the graduates going into radiology or dermatology. That'll help a lot more than just Medicare.

I agree we won't really know all the consequences of Obamacare until they bites us in the butt. And I'm sure Obamacare is far from perfect. I look forward to it being made better. But, what we had before wasn't working for the nation. For me, sure. I had good insurance. But, not for the nation, as a whole.

David Bodner

[terrydowning]

Terry, thanks for you input on this important subject. But, you are forgetting about one important aspect that will affect you and yours -- health care.

The Affordable Care Act, better known as Obama care, will have a major impact on all members of this forum.

Seniors will find that cutting $716 billion from Medicare through lower payments to hospitals and health-care providers means only one thing -- fewer doctors willing to take on Medicare patients or limiting the number the do see.

Cuts in federal subsidies for Medicare Advantage participants were to take place this month, but Health and Human Services has dumped billions into a "study" so that Medicare Advantage members will not see the effects of the cuts until after the election. Here's a short video regarding the cuts in Medicare Advanage -- http://my.brainshark.com/The-President- ... -356086344 --

Folks have two choices in two weeks -- Obama or Romney. In my view, solace derived from voting for a third-party candidate will be short lived in relation to the reality of a President Romney or Obama for the next four years.

While I appreciate your and other's concern over RomneyCare er.. Obama Care (I'm convinced Mitt is opposed to it because it doesn't have his name on it.) or whatever, I can't figure out which side to believe in this whole mess, they all have highly paid and supposedly very smart consultancy firms to throw out statistics and numbers when the truth of the matter is no one can tell the future or what it holds. I do believe that both sides are exaggerating claims, numbers and stories to suit their point of view by injecting fear into the emotions of listeners. Some of these have been proven to be outright lies while others are still unclear, it leaves me in the place of not trusting either party (or candidate) as they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy.

I do believe and have faith that ordinary Americans will find a way to make things work out for them and that the gloom and doom scenarios (lies or just strong emotional points of view? I don't know you have to form your own opinion.) perpetrated by either side to force their own agenda are not as bad as they seem. I have read the historical nightmare scenarios posited when the following were enacted. The Whiskey Tax, Louisiana Purchase, Abolishing slavery, implementation of income tax, Women's suffrage, Prohibition and its subsequent repeal, Social Security, medicare, Environmental Protection Act, and I'm sure so many others throughout the life of this great country. None of those nightmare scenarios proved to come true and through it all we manage to muddle through and make this country the greatest in the world.

I hear the candidates saying their gonna do this and gonna do that all the time failing to mention that they have to get the idea through congress which is as broken as it ever has been since the Civil War. I would love to see true tax reform in the form of flat rate taxes that everyone has to pay, but by the time all the "distinguished" representatives and senators in congress get through shredding and tweaking to their (or their PAC of choice) advantage it will probably be a bigger mess than it ever was before.

I don't know if the current Affordable Health Care Act is good or bad at this point, but I do believe that in a country of our wealth it is an absolute shame (and frankly a bit of an embarrassment) that anyone has to do without needed medical treatment. I think we as responsible citizens need to ensure that everyone gets a fair shot at receiving adequate emergency and preventative medical care. That being said I am opposed to the individual mandate and believe that the Supreme Court made an error in their ruling regarding the Affordable Care Act. The 10th amendment is fairly clear and I believe each state should figure out the adequate medical care of its citizenry on their own. But alas a bill duly voted upon and approved by Congress, signed by the President into law and ruled upon by the Supreme Court is the law of the land and I will abide by it. Frankly talk of abolishing it scares me more than the law as it stands. I shudder to see what abomination may take its place.

[terrydowning]

Sorry for thread jacking. Back to the debates.

I think all three were rather sad indictments of the low level to which American politics has sunk. Either side will say anything to get your vote.

I would love to see a real time "Truth Meter" or fact checking. I would also love to see the so called moderators really hold the line and make sure the candidates answer the questions that are asked and call them out on known half truths.

I have seen better debates done by High School debate teams and these ridiculous televised events did nothing for me other than to solidify my opinion that neither of these men are worth my vote.

[heathicus]

Here's one aspect of Obamacare that I found stunning.



Source: http://www.heritage.org/research/projec ... n-pictures

[pennview]

Ed, we may not like what medical care costs these days and what contributes to those costs, but if you think paying less to doctors will improve your health care, good luck, especially if you're health care is through Medicare.

You can test out how arbitrary cuts in payments will work the next time you head to the pharmacy. When the pharmacist says your medicine is $20.00, tell him/her that you'll give them $10.00 and see what happens. I think you'll leave empty handed. And, the same thing is going to happen under Obama Care when Medicare payments to doctors are cut.

Evidence of what will happen is already clear to both Democrats and Republicans in Congress as they annually do the so-called "doctor fix" to ensure that Medicare payments to doctors don't get cut because of legislation passed in the 1990s.

[dusty]

Here's one aspect of Obamacare that I found stunning.



Source: http://www.heritage.org/research/projects/obamacare/obamacare-in-pictures

To attribute that change to Obamacare with that change you would need to know where all of the jobs were. That data is probably available but I'm not going to try to dig it out.

If I had it, I am not sure I could trust it.

After thought: Is the future a simple extension of this chart? If it is, the future does not look rosey.