Shopsmith tools are too expenisve?

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:13 pm

chip wrote:I haven't been on the SS forum for awhile so thought I would stop by and see what's happening. Anyone heard of Festool? I'm sure you have but you think SS is expensive. Try the new Festool Kapex MS coming out in July. Guess it'll be around $1300. All of a sudden the SS has new value.

While I know Festool quality and reputation I do believe there is a little bit of snob appeal in there. I think many people buy them for much the same reason people buy ultra high dollar cars, to impress.

Sure I know many safety conscious people are switching over to guided tools systems, especially businesses which experience real accident insurance savings, but short of such savings it is hard to justify the cost.

I have a son in law and also two very good friends that are contractors and their idea is buy Ryobi tools then if they get lost, stolen, broken or whatever you can replace them many times for less than the cost of shipping the other tools mail order. My son in law has about 5 Ryobi drills that cost him less than one drill made by Makita and properly less than the 1/4 of a Festool. He can bust, lose, break, drop or destroy them and still be money ahead. That said they will not stoop to Harbor Freight level.

I think there comes a point that cost far exceeds any gain in reliability or quality.
Ed

chip · Post by **chip** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:42 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:While I know Festool quality and reputation I do believe there is a little bit of snob appeal in there. I think many people buy them for much the same reason people buy ultra high dollar cars, to impress.

Sure I know many safety conscious people are switching over to guided tools systems, especially businesses which experience real accident insurance savings, but short of such savings it is hard to justify the cost.

I have a son in law and also two very good friends that are contractors and their idea is buy Ryobi tools then if they get lost, stolen, broken or whatever you can replace them many times for less than the cost of shipping the other tools mail order. My son in law has about 5 Ryobi drills that cost him less than one drill made by Makita and properly less than the 1/4 of a Festool. He can bust, lose, break, drop or destroy them and still be money ahead. That said they will not stoop to Harbor Freight level.

I think there comes a point that cost far exceeds any gain in reliability or quality.
Ed

There is some interesting reading over on the Festoolownersgroup.com site. I got the impression that most pros will not be buying the Kapex. One individual stated it something like: Well to do hobbyists with money but no brains. Interesting enough over on that site I discovered European marketed DeWalt and Makita saws that looked very much like the new Kapex. I understand Europeans are paying more for their wwing tools than us but then they have always paid more for everything over there. Wasn't snobbing the quality just the ridiculous price. Gives new meaning to younger guys shopping at Harbor Freight. Perhaps DeWalt and others will follow with their own updated models and offer it at a much lower price. As with most things in life there is the upper, middle and lower. I would love to have a tool like the Kapex but could never justify the price. The Domino is another Festool tool I would like to own but again the price. I just a middleclass hobbyist.

solicitr · Post by **solicitr** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:53 pm

At some point the Rolex factor takes over: sure it's a masterpiece of meticulous Swiss craftsmanship- but a quartz Timex keeps just as good time.

curiousgeorge · Post by **curiousgeorge** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:57 pm

Wait until you are on a fixed income... Ryobi over Festool sounds like a Damn good deal.

chip · Post by **chip** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:00 pm

solicitr wrote:At some point the Rolex factor takes over: sure it's a masterpiece of meticulous Swiss craftsmanship- but a quartz Timex keeps just as good time.

I haven't worn a watch since I retired a year ago. But when I did it was a Seiko so there you go middle of the road again. When I buy tools I try to consider what is the best bang for my buck. $1300 buys alot of other wants. Would like to add more router bits, bessy clamps, Lee Valley chisel set and the list goes on.

reible · Post by **reible** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:50 pm

BEWARE!
THE END IS NEAR !
Beat the April Price Increases !

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:32 pm

reible wrote:
BEWARE!

THE END IS NEAR !
Beat the April Price Increases !

He He He, Got that e-mail too.

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:34 pm

chrispitude wrote:My favorite version of this saying is:

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price has been forgotten."

I recite this three times before I set foot in any Harbor Freight store...

- Chris

Then what is the point of going through their door?

osx-addict · Post by **osx-addict** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:48 pm

My little brother likes them because he considered almost all of their tools to be throw-away items.. When they break you toss them out.. Not a particularly good motto from the trash dump's point of view, but I'm sure others like it for that same reason.. For me, I steer far away from them.. I'd rather buy something once than doing it over and over and over..

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:43 am

a1gutterman wrote:Then what is the point of going through their door?

A1gutterman
Good question!
We have a harbor freight nearby and while I refuse to buy their motor driven tools I figured I would buy things like hand tools and such. Almost every month they have one of their assortment packs on sale and I was making it a habit to go buy the one on sale so I would have a good assortment of hardware.

Sounded like a great idea, right? WRONG! I can't tell how often I have twisted the head off a bolt but it isn't often. However I did it three times in a row with Harbor Freight bolts and I was using a screw driver handled nut driver to insert them. The first one happened and I was more surprized than anything. I then took it out and did the second one and when it snapped I was a little ticked, when I did the third one I picked up the assortment and filed it (in the round file can).

All of sudden it dawned on me why I was losing the cotter pin from my edger. I couldn't tell you how much time I spent trying to figure out what was happening. I had lost the cotter key one time when I was doing some maintenance and thought no problem I have the HF assortment of cotter pins so I got one that looked right and put it in. Next time I went to use the machine the cotter pin was gone. So I put a new one in. Again it was gone. trhis went on every time I went to use the machine. Finally I decided I had put it back together wrong and took the assembly all apart and got the parts manual and reassembled it by the picture. Again the pin was missing. After the bolt broke I replaced the cotter pin from one I got from the hardware store. No more missing cotter pins. It's a miracle! No, it's no more using HF junk.