why isn't there a for sale section here?

dgale · Post by **dgale** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:19 am

rdavidp wrote:Speaking of ordering from Shopsmith. I placed an order online for some rubber bandsaw tires, replacement roller bearings for said bandsaw, poly-v belt, and a motor drive belt early last week. Checked the status of my order, and it still indicates that it has yet to be shipped. Is this par for the course? I will be calling Shopsmith today to find out what's going on.

I placed an order for a ton of stuff (jointer aux fence, bandsaw acc kit, bandsaw blades, belt sander belts, touch-up paint, premium casters) on 11/15 and they sent me a "package shipped" e-mail on 11/17 with an expected arrival date of 11/23. A couple of the items were marked as backordered but they shipped the rest within two days. Now that being said, the last time I placed an order with them (the SS "Help Kit" and maintenance DVD) it was placed on 7/15/12 and I didn't get the "package shipped" e-mail until 8/1/12. I know they often have items backordered and/or made to order, so it may depend on what you bought and their inventory status. I'm sure a phone call to them will get you a current update on when it should ship.

dgale · Post by **dgale** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:38 am

In response to this thread, I fully understand and respect SS's stance on posting items for sale. Sadly the reality is the market is flooded with used SS's - one was just posted on my local Craig's List for $50 yesterday and claims to be fully functional (yup, I'm heading to look at it today). If I was in the market for a SS, I'd have to be pretty flush with cash to think about buying a new unit these days when I can pick up a great condition used 510 or 520 for $500-$1500. Same holds true for accessories and parts.

Now, when it comes to stuff like saw/bandsaw blades, sanding discs and belts, replacement parts, etc., I don't think twice and head straight to SS. Other items I've needed or wanted are either now longer made or the price differential between used and new is too great for me to be loyal. It is a shame that SS can't find a way to capitalize on the used market - with the food of used stuff out there, it's the reality of the market and they can ignore it or embrace it.

I continue to be amazed how much people are willing to pay for most used stuff on E-Bay - often very close to the price of the item new from SS. A recent example is several strip sanders I have watched come and go on E-Bay. SS sells it new for $290 and recently had a special on it for something like $225. This is for a new in box unit from SS with all the platens, manual etc. Meanwhile on E-Bay folks have routinely paid $175-$200 for used strip sanders - many of them appearing to be in good/like new condition, but definitely used so some inherent risk in exact condition, not to mention none of the ones I've seen seemed to have all of the platens (usually they just had whatever one was installed), nor did most of them have the manual. Not to mention, the shipping on most larger/heavier items from E-Bay usually is much more than what SS has charged me for orders int he past. This just leads me to believe people either are unaware of what SS currently sells, their usual special prices etc., or else they just get caught up in a E-Bay bidding frenzy and overpay for stuff. Anyway, point is SS can sit back and watch all this $$ change hands or they can figure out a way to get involved. Obviously this is more than they want to deal with but it's hard to survive when you ignore the realities of the market.

rdavidp · Post by **rdavidp** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:40 am

dgale wrote:I placed an order for a ton of stuff (jointer aux fence, bandsaw acc kit, bandsaw blades, belt sander belts, touch-up paint, premium casters) on 11/15 and they sent me a "package shipped" e-mail on 11/17 with an expected arrival date of 11/23. A couple of the items were marked as backordered but they shipped the rest within two days. Now that being said, the last time I placed an order with them (the SS "Help Kit" and maintenance DVD) it was placed on 7/15/12 and I didn't get the "package shipped" e-mail until 8/1/12. I know they often have items backordered and/or made to order, so it may depend on what you bought and their inventory status. I'm sure a phone call to them will get you a current update on when it should ship.

Just got off the phone with them. Half of my order is on back order and it is just belts, tires, which is what is on back order, and roller bearings. I asked about a time frame on the motor belt. Maybe two to three weeks. I have cancelled the belts and tires, just getting the roller bearings, which may ship today. I have read some posts by Bill Mayo where he recommends the Power Twist Link belt with 35 links for the motor drive belt. Local Woodcraft store carries that. I am getting my new band saw roller bearings, but not the tires. I was just going to replace the tires just because I am the new owner. The band saw tires may be ok. Motor drive belt does look a bit worn, so it definitely needs to be replaced. If I was ordering something big, like a planer, jointer, 500 to 520 table upgrade, I could understand the backorder, or extra time, but this is simple belts and rubber tires.

dgale · Post by **dgale** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:53 am

rdavidp wrote:Just got off the phone with them. Half of my order is on back order and it is just belts, tires, which is what is on back order, and roller bearings. I asked about a time frame on the motor belt. Maybe two to three weeks. I have cancelled the belts and tires, just getting the roller bearings, which may ship today. I have read some posts by Bill Mayo where he recommends the Power Twist Link belt with 35 links for the motor drive belt. Local Woodcraft store carries that. I am getting my new band saw roller bearings, but not the tires. I was just going to replace the tires just because I am the new owner. The band saw tires may be ok. Motor drive belt does look a bit worn, so it definitely needs to be replaced. If I was ordering something big, like a planer, jointer, 500 to 520 table upgrade, I could understand the backorder, or extra time, but this is simple belts and rubber tires.

Pretty surprising they wouldn't have routine maintenance supplies like that readily in stock and ready to ship.

BigSky · Post by **BigSky** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:56 am

rdavidp wrote:Speaking of ordering from Shopsmith. I placed an order online for some rubber bandsaw tires, replacement roller bearings for said bandsaw, poly-v belt, and a motor drive belt early last week. Checked the status of my order, and it still indicates that it has yet to be shipped. Is this par for the course? I will be calling Shopsmith today to find out what's going on.

Unfortunately, this has become true of Shopsmith. It seems that everything (well, most things) are maintained in minimum quantity or ordered only when needed.

The "Just in Time" inventory concept does not work for a customer service environment. The need for parts is too unpredictable.

I fear that it will only get worse now that the PowerPro headstock is the leading sales item. There are just too many parts that are not used in the older machines.

dgale · Post by **dgale** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:24 am

For some things, it's no big deal and/or understandable. If I wanted to buy a new bandsaw or main table or some major part or accessory, I can see the reason for not having much (if any) stock on hand of many such items. But when someone needs maintenance items like a drive belt or bandsaw tires, chances are they are in need because the old one failed or broke and waiting multiple weeks is not an appealing option when you were probably in the middle of a project. If folks want to order stuff like blades, sanding belts and discs and other expendable items and they are not readily available, chances are they'll just opt for the quicker after-market options rather than wait. It's a business mistake to not keep adequate stocks of such items and be ready to ship upon ordering. The reality is we are an instant gratification society these days - there's not much you can't find on Amazon and elsewhere these days and have to your door in two days if you want it, so most folks don't have the patience for waiting multiple weeks for items to be delivered.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:42 pm

dgale wrote: It's a business mistake to not keep adequate stocks of such items and be ready to ship upon ordering.

Isn't it also a mistake to have $$$ tied up in stock sitting on the shelf?

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:20 pm

beeg wrote:Isn't it also a mistake to have $$$ tied up in stock sitting on the shelf?

I guess one would have to know how many sales are lost due to an inability to fill an order in a timely manner versus the cost of inventory.

If you don't have it, you can't sell it.

If the customer doesn't see it, you might as well not have it.

If you don't turn your inventory regularly, you might as well close the doors.

dgale · Post by **dgale** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:28 pm

beeg wrote:Isn't it also a mistake to have $$$ tied up in stock sitting on the shelf?

Sure but they have to use their past sales data, best hunches and judgement to decide what are items that would routinely be in demand and stock those and then decide what items are infrequently purchased and/or expensive to manufacture and make those on-demand items. Perhaps they've already done this but at the point the don't stock drive belts, bandsaw tires, and sanding belts, I'd suggest it's time for them to reanalyze what stock they maintain on hand - such items are cheap to produce (and hence not tying up lots of $$ while they sit on the shelf) and presumably are the sorts of items that would be ordered on a fairly regular basis. If folks get told stuff like this will take multiple weeks to get shipped, I'd guess most folks would look elsewhere for alternatives that are available more promptly. When this happens, that is less $$ coming in to feed the bottom line. When I go to the auto parts store, I totally understand when they have to special order a clutch slave cylinder for my car but I'd scratch my head if they didn't have motor oil, spark plugs, and air filters in stock (and I'd go elsewhere to find the place that did rather than wait for them to be special ordered).

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:03 pm

A while back, when Shopsmith was in worse shape than present, they ran out of drive belts and ordered a batch from Gates. Oh my! This was a mistake as the Gates 1/2" belts were of a much lower quality than the ones previously produced for Shopsmith by Goodyear.

The Gates belts were not only narrower, but had a crowned top. Also where the joint was made they were off-set. Since the drive belt rides on its sides against the sheaves, the offset caused a vibration and I suppose caused more wear on the sheaves. At that time I posted a harsh post(s) about this situation and the post(s) were removed by Nick. Several months later, Shopsmith again was selling Goodyear belts with the Shopsmith name on them.

To my knowledge, they still only handle these Goodyear belts. Sorry they ran out. Hopefully they will be in stock soon. The Goodyear belts are much superior.

Here is a couple of the Photos I took of a comparison between the two belts.