Today in the shop (powerpro routing)

damagi · Post by **damagi** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:57 am

Have you figured out how to efficiently setup and adjust this? seems like centering the bit in the ring is critical, such that you would want a jig to help you change the table to trunion height quickly and correctly every time.

For the bit height, are you partially extending the quill at first, thus allowing for up/down tweaking? Is that very easy?

reible · Post by **reible** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:00 pm

dusty wrote:This is very interesting and I think impressive. It leads me to conclude that the main drive line is located precisely on the centerline between the main table uprights. One could also conclude that there is no slop in your drill chuck. There also can be no slop in the carriage when locked in position.

Like I said, I am impressed.

Just wondering, Ed. Did you enlarge the mounting holes in your trunnions. My guess is that you did not. For those of us that did, achieving this degree of alignment would be a bit more difficult.

HOWEVER, it seems like you could loosen the trunnions bolts and reposition the table such that it would align perfectly in both configurations.

Hi,

Well it could be I got lucky on my setup but it is so close to being "perfect" that I have to believe it could be adjusted for that last 1/32" but I don't know if I'll ever attempt that. On my next table insert build I will allow for just a little slop and hope that on a future alignment it will still work. I still don't know what a worse case is but it will never be a 1/4".

This is a factory upgrade table when I took my machine from a 500 to 520 and it came with all four hole the same size. An older 510 came with the one smaller hole and I drilled that out, it was much easier to align after the change so I'm glad I did that.

This summer I picked up another table for this machine with the smooth area near the blade and it too came with all the hole the same size. Haven't taken the time to swap out and align this one yet, another project waiting for me to do.

I'd sure like some other owners to do this and then have a pool of information to look at. Heck even one or two other results would be interesting.

Ed

reible · Post by **reible** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:14 pm

algale wrote:Ed,

Thanks for the tutorial. It makes perfect sense the tie bar guard has to come off for this under table operation but is that spelled out in the instructions for the double tilt upgrade? (Any Mark 7 owners care to comment on whether it is part of the Mark 7 instructions?)

My other question is whether you will be reinstalling the tie bar guard for normal operations (say table saw)? And, if not, can you let us know whether you notice any degradation in dust collection efficiency without the tie bar guard. I find I am constantly catching the tie bar guard on the lower blade guard when setting up for sawing operations and I would love to do away with it in its entirety if it doesn't degrade dust collection performance significantly.

Al

Hi,

I have not seen any instructions indicating the need to remove the guard but it was clear that it had to happen when I did the setup. Now it could be there is a new but unannounced guard design that will change this but I don't have one.

I'd like to watch another demo now and check to see if they have the guard removed or what. I never paid attention when they swapped to demo the shaper but I do know they never showed the guard being removed.

I believe the guard is a very important part of the dust collection system and I believe leaving it off would be a mistake. I put mine back on and it will stay in place until it needs to be removed... but always put back on.

I "close" my lower guard when I remove it. When it is put back on it is still only enough to get the blade on then closed again until the table is in position. I then expand to touch the guard and tighten in place. I still have to worry about it catching when I raise the table too high and then come back down. I think there could be a better solution but I don't know what it is.

Ed

algale · Post by **algale** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:23 pm

reible wrote:
I'd like to watch another demo now and check to see if they have the guard removed or what. I never paid attention when they swapped to demo the shaper but I do know they never showed the guard being removed.

I believe there is a video on YouTube showing the shaper demo and I believe the tie bar guard was already off when the table was turned backwards for under table shaping. I assume the same tie bar guard probably still ships with the Mark 7 or else we probably would have heard about it from one of the forum members.

reible · Post by **reible** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:46 pm

damagi wrote:Have you figured out how to efficiently setup and adjust this? seems like centering the bit in the ring is critical, such that you would want a jig to help you change the table to trunion height quickly and correctly every time.

For the bit height, are you partially extending the quill at first, thus allowing for up/down tweaking? Is that very easy?

I treat this like it is a router. I have a brass insert for doing alignment and a rod to chuck up. Once I get the rod in the insert I have alignment. I can use the table movement to get the in/out setting then the table insert to do the left/right adjustment. With all lock the quill should feed the rod though the insert without any problems. This is just how I would do an alignment with a standard router. Now if I go from above to below routing this adjustment needs to be done again.

Height adjustment is both the placement of the main table and the use of the quill. Since bit length can vary it is possible that you may have to play with the table height so that you keep the quill from having to be extended too far yet keep the cutting edge of the bit in range.

Height adjustment is a weakness of this system, the quill works well for drilling but is a little to "fast" for fine adjustments. It is hard to hold the quill feed at the perfect height while locking the quill. I find it hard anyway, may not be for others.

One feature I'm playing with is removing the router arbor to change bits when in the motor below position. Since shopsmith uses a different method of holding the bits it seems easier to just pull the arbor out and deal with it rather then attempting to just replace bits while it is mounted. If you ever get to this point it will be obvious why.

Did I manage to answer your questions?

Ed

damagi · Post by **damagi** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:43 pm

reible wrote:I treat this like it is a router. I have a brass insert for doing alignment and a rod to chuck up. Once I get the rod in the insert I have alignment. I can use the table movement to get the in/out setting then the table insert to do the left/right adjustment. With all lock the quill should feed the rod though the insert without any problems. This is just how I would do an alignment with a standard router. Now if I go from above to below routing this adjustment needs to be done again.

Height adjustment is both the placement of the main table and the use of the quill. Since bit length can vary it is possible that you may have to play with the table height so that you keep the quill from having to be extended too far yet keep the cutting edge of the bit in range.

Height adjustment is a weakness of this system, the quill works well for drilling but is a little to "fast" for fine adjustments. It is hard to hold the quill feed at the perfect height while locking the quill. I find it hard anyway, may not be for others.

One feature I'm playing with is removing the router arbor to change bits when in the motor below position. Since shopsmith uses a different method of holding the bits it seems easier to just pull the arbor out and deal with it rather then attempting to just replace bits while it is mounted. If you ever get to this point it will be obvious why.

Did I manage to answer your questions?

Ed

Yeah, that all makes sense. The use of the centering pin setup sounds like it works reasonably well. perhaps a little touchy, since the normal centering pin would allow the base to adjust freely. I wonder if the use of a centering pin (ie: machinist style) could be a good choice since it is designed for a situation similar to this.

Height adjustment always sounded like a three-handed operation...one to measure the height of the bit, one to adjust the quill, and one to lock it down. Normal router tables don't face this because they don't have the spring mechanism for the height. I suppose one option would be to try one of those digital height gauges...to see if there was a temporary mount that would allow you to have the measurement work well.

Thanks for the insight on this stuff - keep it coming

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:56 pm

The spring washer in the quill feed allows you to introduce a holding action. The spring washer will allow movement of the quill, but hold it in position until tightened fully.

reible · Post by **reible** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:11 am

Just a short update on today's efforts.

I prototyped an insert that is designed to use the shaper table inset and provide better support near the bit then is presently being offered by shopsmith.

I'll let you see what it looks like but I know I need to make a few adjustments before I start testing with live bits.

I think pictures will be the best way to go here sooooo

[ATTACH]19461[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]19462[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]19463[/ATTACH]

The inserts are not drilled out yet, the sizes will be 2", 1-3/4", 1-1/2", and 1-1/4".

The material that I had on hand for the inserts was some 1/4" birch plywood, that is not going to work. I broke one already so I have to find some tempered hardboard or similar material to use. I have some scrapes I'll have to dig out... Other then the material issue it is looking promising.

Ed

tomp · Post by **tomp** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:27 am

I would like to read more if you have made any progress. Today, I tried my Mark 7 in router mode for the second time. Mine seems to max out at 9500 rpm. I guess that is close enough to 10,000.

I tried to route some saw table inserts made from 1/4" birch ply, covered with formica. I thought that I could just drill various sized holes in them for different router bits. I found the SS table lacking; working with a small object, I thought the table was too uneven.

But I plan to try again.

algale · Post by **algale** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:52 am

[quote="tomp"]I would like to read more if you have made any progress. Today, I tried my Mark 7 in router mode for the second time. Mine seems to max out at 9500 rpm. I guess that is close enough to 10,000.

I tried to route some saw table inserts made from 1/4" birch ply, covered with formica. I thought that I could just drill various sized holes in them for different router bits. I found the SS table lacking]

Tomp,

I think I would be in touch with Shopsmith customer service if I were you.

First, the machine is advertised at 10,000 RPMs. If it is topping out at 9500 RPMs something isn't right. What's the lowest speed you are getting?

Second, while the Shopsmith table top isn't going to be as perfectly flat as a piece of cast iron, the table ought to be flat enough for any operation involving a workpiece the size of a table insert. In paragraph A of this link, http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpos ... ostcount=4 Nick Engler, who was formerly in an official position with Shopsmith, stated that the table should be flat to within 0.010 to 0.012 inches.

Al