Cross Cut Help

berry · Post by **berry** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:43 am

I’m having a senior moment or brain fart or something. I can’t get a 90 degree cross cut. I don’t remember the last time I checked a cross cut for accuracy, but it’s been some time.

Anyway, last weekend I ripped and cut to final length rails and stiles for a cabinet. For the heck of it I decided to check the cross cuts and they were all off!

Since then (following PTWFE & using a Starrett combination square) I checked:
The Table is square to the blade
The Table slots are parallel to the blade (this was off .002” – not something I’d fix)
The miter gauge is at a right angle to table slots

Cutting a 3.5” wide test board I have the joined edge against the miter gauge. After the cut, to measure, I put the square (tightly against the same edge that was against the miter gauge) and pull it down until it contacts the cut end. In the corner of the square it fits but as it moves away from the ‘guide’ edge a gap appears. At the end of the cut it’s off .020”.

It seems like the cuts should be on the money and if off - not 1/64”, holy cow! If there’s a thread I should read just give me directions.

I read this forum regularly and respect the participants here, your knowledge and insight. One of you fine people need to kick me in the right direction.

I look forward to your assistance. I hope it's not still snowing where you are.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:00 pm

Berry
I suspect you problem is a little bit of everything.

If your mitre to blade is out a little bit and then the mitre to 90 degrees is out a little bit you can have the problem.

Also check your square. Sometimes on try squares the inside and outside angle is slightly different. If you set up your tools using the outside angle and then check your cut using the inside angle things can really change.

First check you square, make sure it is square.
Do this by laying it on the edge of a piece of wood or paper and draw a line then flip the sguare over and draw another line right on the first. If there is any diffference you square is off.
Once you have a good square check the mitre to blade to make sure your blade and the table is perfectly in square. I try for perfection.
Next mount your mitre and make it square to the blade.

Now take a piece of wood about 6x6 or bigger. Number each side 1-4 now with side 1 held tight against the mitre cut a 1/4 inch strip of side 2, rotate the wood and with side 2 agains the mitre cut a 1/4 strip off side 3. Continue around until you get side 1 back again the mitre now cut a piece 1/2 - 1 inch off the side two. Measure the width of the piece top and bottom it should be equal. If it not your setup is wrong and I would go through it again even more carefully. The difference is approx 4 times the amount your off, so make your adjustments carefully.

Make sure your wood is not slipping when your cutting and have patience you can dial in your machine to perfection if you take your time.
Ed

pinkiewerewolf · Post by **pinkiewerewolf** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:01 pm

berry, I had similar problems until I replaced the Miter Guage & safety grip.
In my case this had seen a lot of use since 1959 and I couldn't get it to keep "square".
With the new Miter Guage & Safety Grip I haven't had an issue with square after doing the adjustments you mentioned.
Check your Miter Guage to make sure it is square to the blade and that your fence keeps square to the blade also.
Good Luck!
Or as the Japanese would say Ganbatte!

chiroindixon · Post by **chiroindixon** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:38 pm

Berry,

You have had me thinking all afternoon. Cuts like that have driven me crazy, spending endless hours to correct.

The advise from Ed is excellent, and "Pinky" might have the clue......Double check what Ed told you.....That is solid advise. First, make a Five Point Check. "Nick" was apologetic, but instructive in the "Molder Session". I have screwed up many a cut with my Mark V not being properly locked down.

BUT...having said that, I suspect that it's your technique with that miter gauge that is the problem. I remembered that in one of the TA's I attended the instructor stressed that the miter gauge bar had some slop in it. The proper technique was to grab the "pistol grip" and torque, either CW or CCW ....AND BE CONSISTENT.

Most of my cuts are from the right side of the blade, so I grip with my left hand, torquing CCW. My right hand follows on the workpiece, working not to induce more "torque" at the lead end of blade and work piece. Do you use a miter gauge extender? The work piece has to approach the cutting edge at a right angle. If the long leg of the piece drags, you will get the results you are complaining about.

I watched another episode of the "Woodsmith Shop" today. Focus was on the table saw and accessories. One of the last notes that "Don", the head guy, admitted to was the accuracy of a crosscut sled versus a miter gauge. I have three sleds....all set for different uses.

The SS miter gauge with the pistol grip is a decent tool....but it has limitations. I have no more of these issues with a sled....

Hope that helps,

Doc

nuhobby · Post by **nuhobby** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:46 pm

To chime in (with a dull ring, I suppose), I've had 2 squares in the last year turn out to be not-square. For setting the miter gage I have been:
a. Averaging the error of the square by placing it both ways
b. Looking real close at the reflections of the table's grooves in the miter gage face.

I believe other than the cross-cut sled, one of the fellows in the past has mentioned routinely clamping the work-piece to the miter-gage (or miter gage extension). I do this sometimes and it does help me.

Best Regards,

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:35 pm

Adding to the excellent advice you have in the above posts, is this - - I found the miter gauge just a little short to hold longer (16" and longer) boards really square. So I got the SS miter gauge extension (555429) along with the sticky sand paper face (this may be extra). After adjustment, as recommended above, I have had no problems!:D

Actually, I used the long leg of the the 'Miter Pro' (555404) until I got tired of changing it back and forth. - - then bought the extension.

pinkiewerewolf · Post by **pinkiewerewolf** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:29 pm

The Miter Gauge Extension is a great addition. I've been using mine on 2X12 material to make some built in shelves and it is a big help since the boards start out at 14' L.
Sorry if my inital post echo'd Ed's but we were typing at the same time apparently.
(note the time stamps);)

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:58 pm

[quote="pinkiewerewolf"]..............Sorry if my inital post echo'd Ed's but we were typing at the same time apparently.
(note the time stamps)]
Hi Pinkie,
As far as I am concerned, no apology required; this has happened to me a few times too.

berry · Post by **berry** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:01 pm

I checked my combination square several times and had my son check it was well. I believe it’s really square.

I rechecked table to the blade a made an adjustment.
I also made a small adjustment of the miter gauge to the table slots.
I couldn’t tackle the table slots to the blade for .002.

With these changes my error is now .008, (over 3.5”) an improvement.

I use the safety grip and always cross cut on the right side of the blade. I’ve made quite a few test cuts this weekend and I’m trying to pay attention to consistent working methods. I use a homemade miter gauge extension when the length of the piece about 20” or longer.

I really appreciate Ed’s comments – it may well be a series of small errors.

I use a cross cut sled but that’s for another thread. No sense getting off topic.

I was interested in Pinkie’s comments about getting a new miter gauge. My gauge doesn’t, and never has, fit flush to the table. I called Customer Service years ago and they said the ‘feet’ were adjustable. Try as I might I never could get the feet to move. (It needs a very narrow slotted screw driver. I couldn’t turn the screw. I tried penetrating oil. I was afraid to attach a Vice-Grip to the screwdriver shaft to grain more torque for fear I’d break something.)

Can you go into more detail about why you purchased a new miter gauge or how the old one failed to perform?

Thanks to everyone for your observations. Happy Easter!

Greenvilleguy · Post by **Greenvilleguy** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:24 pm

Ok, this may really off the wall, but I've had a similar problem when forgetting to lock the table carriage. Without it locked there is some slop.