Restorations - Can you get your money back?

donalexander · Post by **donalexander** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:13 am

I have seen some really nice restorations here and I'm seriously considering trying my hand at it. What concerns me is the resale value of a used Shopsmith. It looks like a restoration could easily run into $200-300 over the cost of the machine to really bring it back to new condition. I'm looking at a Greenie or maybe a 10ER and I expect I'd lose most everything I invest in a machine plus my time. I've fine breaking even but I don't need a second Shopsmith and would sell whatever I restore. It looks like most Mark V's sell for 400-600 depending on condition (and less if they're really rough). Would a nicely restored machine be capable of bringing $700-900?

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:24 am

donalexander wrote:I have seen some really nice restorations here and I'm seriously considering trying my hand at it. What concerns me is the resale value of a used Shopsmith. It looks like a restoration could easily run into $200-300 over the cost of the machine to really bring it back to new condition. I'm looking at a Greenie or maybe a 10ER and I expect I'd lose most everything I invest in a machine plus my time. I've fine breaking even but I don't need a second Shopsmith and would sell whatever I restore. It looks like most Mark V's sell for 400-600 depending on condition (and less if they're really rough). Would a nicely restored machine be capable of bringing $700-900?

You ask a really hard question! What would a real nicely restored machine bring? Impossible to answer with any validity but I seriously doubt $700-$900. There are just too many old machines available for a lot less.

Most of us who do any of that work do it for self-satisfaction and we accumulate machines. They become like stray dogs. Once you feed them, they never leave.

As for the cost of restorations, it all depends on what you call a restoration. I have put two machines back in service for $0.00 but I would not call that a restoration. To me, restoration means back to "out-of-box" condition. Actually, I prefer to do resurrections. Resurrections often require no significant financial investment. Many machines can be put back into reliable service with a few bearings (maybe $100) and a good cleaning, lubrication and alignment.

fredsheldon · Post by **fredsheldon** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:31 am

I'm not sure restorations would be a way to make money if that's your goal. For me it was a matter of a labor of love and a pratical use of the final product. I am just about complete with my restorations of 3 10ER's and have spent a total of about $350, which includes all new bearings and belts and the cost of the machines themselves. I guess I could sell them for $200 each if I tried real hard and that would add up to about $3.50 per hour for my labor. I could make more as a Walmart greeter

letterk · Post by **letterk** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:05 am

donalexander wrote:I have seen some really nice restorations here and I'm seriously considering trying my hand at it. What concerns me is the resale value of a used Shopsmith. It looks like a restoration could easily run into $200-300 over the cost of the machine to really bring it back to new condition. I'm looking at a Greenie or maybe a 10ER and I expect I'd lose most everything I invest in a machine plus my time. I've fine breaking even but I don't need a second Shopsmith and would sell whatever I restore. It looks like most Mark V's sell for 400-600 depending on condition (and less if they're really rough). Would a nicely restored machine be capable of bringing $700-900?

Unless you get a free machine or the occasional post where we hear someone got one for $100 because of motor problems, it is doubful you'll get your money back on a restoration. However, if you want a skyblue tan (a family joke) Shopsmith you are probably the only way that is going to happen.

I think when it comes to Shopsmith, you buy one because you like it. There is a resale market, but your guarantee of making money is only if you get it cheap or maybe sell it part by part and that kind of defeats the purpose of restoring it.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:12 am

A 'problem' as I see it is that one who is not already familiar with these machines would not understand the 'restoration' process nor the need to do so, whereas one who is familiar with these machines would be looking for a 'bargain'.

One 'restores/resurrects' out of an anticipated future use of them, not for profit. Tis a personal choice how far one goes beyond resurrecting towards restored.

That said, a small 'profit' can be made by one divesting their 'duplicates'. Usually the 'extras' come along with something else. One of these days I may need to resume doing that!:rolleyes:

dlbristol · Post by **dlbristol** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:25 am

[quote="dusty"]

Most of us who do any of that work do it for self-satisfaction and we accumulate machines. They become like stray dogs. Once you feed them, they never leave.
Now that is funny, i don't care who you are!

terrydowning · Post by **terrydowning** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:27 am

I rehabbed mine. Not for any resale value though. I'm third gen user of this machine (Can a SS be owned? I think it may own me.) At any rate, it was rusty, ugly, and unpleasant to use. So some elbow grease, paint, and a commitment to do the work made all the difference. I truly enjoy using my machine now knowing that all the bearings are good, all the belts are good, alignment is good, rust is gone, etc. Rehabbing a machine is also a great way to really get to know the machine as well. Hopefully, this machine will go to one of my kids and there will be a 4th generation user.

heathicus · Post by **heathicus** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:14 pm

JPG40504 wrote:One 'restores/resurrects' out of an anticipated future use of them, not for profit. Tis a personal choice how far one goes beyond resurrecting towards restored.

I agree with JPG on that. I don't think there's any money to be made, and plenty of money to be lost, on restoring a Shopsmith. Unless you're restoring someone else's machine and they are paying you to do so. But to buy, restore, and sell? No. I don't think there's enough of a margin there to turn a profit.

I really wish there was though, as restoring these machines is something I very much enjoy doing.

If you're looking to buy used and turn it into profit, your best bet is to part it out on eBay.

garys · Post by **garys** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:10 pm

The word "restoration" has gained a bad reputation today with a lot of people thinking that restoration means slapping lots of new paint over old paint on a used product and somehow it improves an older product.
My experience over the last 45 years with restored products, not just Shopsmith, is that you pay more for something that has new paint, hopefully looks better than before, and doesn't work any better or even as well as it did before the restoration.
Usually, that new paint just hides the real problems underneath. Most restorers go for cosmetic look and don't really know much about function.

donalexander · Post by **donalexander** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:48 pm

I appreciate all of the comments. Just to be clear, I wasn't looking to make money doing this. I simply didn't want to buy a machine for $300, invest $200 and then work at selling it for $400. My intent was to restore, rehab, or resurrect a machine to like new (not just paint) and then let it become someone else's pride and joy.

FWIW, I do enjoy buying and selling these machines, when it suits my purposes. About a year ago I decided I wanted to upgrade my single bearing quill Mark V all the way to a Mark V 520. It took some doing but I bought a 510 that had some 20+ years of neglect, some missing pieces, but nothing major wrong. I upgraded that machine when the Mother Ship put the upgrade on sale, I cleaned and repaired the band saw that came with the 510, the sold the cleaned up band saw and my Mark V model 500. That left me with a like new Mark V 520 - and my cost was $145.

Now my hourly rate on that deal would be dismal...but I have a better machine, most of my cash, and a bit more know how. Making money isn't my goal - not losing money is.

Don