Why WW pubs look down on SS?

WmZiggy · Post by **WmZiggy** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:58 pm

Why do wood working publications, and in my experience it's a majority of them, look in a disparging way at SS as a serious woodworking machine? I've had this question for a number of years and thought I would put it before us here. I subscribe to three major publications from high end to DIY and in all cases you never see or read a tool review or building project that includes SS, except those publications owned and operated by SS. Why the discrimination against this great American (and one of the last still built in the USA) tool maker? I've got my own thoughts but would like to see what others think.

heathicus · Post by **heathicus** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:16 pm

Because it doesn't conform to the norm. It's different, therefore not as good as everything else.

frank81 · Post by **frank81** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:19 pm

My opinion on the majority of reviews on any product out there is they are tainted by money. Not neccesarily direct payments, but when your job and company expenses are paid for by advertising revenue you don't bite the hands that feed you.

A great example of this in action is the show Top Gear. The original version is on BBC who is run with public money and not beholden to advertisers. It's a great show because they can be honest. They created an American version a few years ago and its literally a joke, just clowning around and pandering to the car companies because that's who buys commercials.

Another example is any DIY mechanic show. Sometimes you learn a new trick or technique, but for the most part they are 30 minute infomercials.

Just my two cents. When I want an honest review of a product I tend to hit the message boards which I think are kinder to SS. But even that can be ruined for some products as they plant sympathetic users.

ryanbp01 · Post by **ryanbp01** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:34 pm

Look at the advertisers in the magazines. Jet, Powermatic, Sawstop, and others who manufacture and sell standalone machines. All of these are serious competitors of Shopsmith. Every woodworking show has standalone machines. Woodworkers, I believe, have been "brainwashed" into thinking they can only be competent if they have what is being sold on today's market. The publications naturally are going to endorse those who advertise in them. "Money talks, everything else walks".

Look at the woodworking shows on T.V. They reinforce what is sold. When you see a host using Festtool, Fein, or another brand, that does send a message to the consumer, "if I want those results, I better buy that brand of tool. No one shows how easy it is to change from one tool to the other except Shopsmith.

If I sound cynical, so be it. I will always be a Shopsmith user. But marketing and price are key. Shopsmith, if they want the business to grow, are going to have to do something other than appealing to those of us who are already loyal customers and grow their customer base to be viable. Ziggy, I apologize if I have overstepped my bounds, but your post really resonated with me.
BPR

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:42 pm

I don't believe they do. What I believe they do is support those companies that support them. When you see an article about a particular machine or tool, check the advertisements. That company will most likely be an advertiser.

If Shopsmith advertised in Wood (or any other major publication), you would see articles in Wood about Shopsmith. There are no Shopsmith advertisements in the various publications because Shopsmith doesn't pay to play.

It pays to advertise even when you are struggling to stay afloat.

frank81 · Post by **frank81** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:55 pm

dusty wrote:It pays to advertise even when you are struggling to stay afloat.

Not necessarily. Not all advertising has a positive return. Some is just a waste of good money that could have gone to better uses.

I would also counter that ShopSmith is investing in distribution through Lowes rather than traditional print media. That's almost always a better use of money for a smaller company.

I would also counter that ShopSmith makes ShopSmith. Their competitors are part of huge conglomerates that make all kinds of things in huge volume. To a publisher they represent a lot more potential advertising, whether for their WW mag or another publication that aligns with other products they make. ShopSmith could throw every dollar they have at advertising and not win that battle.

Basically, ShopSmith is sticking to their own game plan. They will never be one of the big boys, and thats OK. Recognizing that and not changing their business model to mirror something that they aren't is a sign of good managment. Good reviews do not equal more business or more profit. Our most unprofitable project at work recently won lots of awards and great reviews. That doesn't pay the bills or change the fact that it was a debacle from day 1.

WmZiggy · Post by **WmZiggy** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:47 pm

Ziggy, I apologize if I have overstepped my bounds, but your post really resonated with me.
BPR[/QUOTE]

No apology necessary, Ryan. At one level, I don't give a flip that the WW pubs don't even acknowledge that SS exists, yet on another level I have been woodworking for 40 years and there has never, ever been even a mention in FWW or any other mag, even when they have reviewed (in FWW one time if memory serves me) multi-machines! I know about the incestous affair between advertizers and the mags, yet in the case of FWW and other media, I just think they are snobs; wouldn't be caught dead operating a SS. SS is viewed as a less than serious ww tool which is a shame given it's history and quality.

frank81 · Post by **frank81** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:03 pm

[quote="WmZiggy"] I just think they are snobs]

I've always believed in the saying "a good craftsman never blames his tools." Maybe you have to calibrate and service some tools more than others, but in the end if you can't build the same thing on a ShopSmith as you could in a fancy cabinet shop then its your own lack of skill. The expensive machines were just covering it up.

Take what you see in woodworking, multiply it by 100, divide intelligence by 3, add a dash of belligerence, and you've got the garage mechanics snobbery.

billmayo · Post by **billmayo** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:10 pm

frank81 wrote:Not necessarily. Not all advertising has a positive return. Some is just a waste of good money that could have gone to better uses.

I would also counter that ShopSmith is investing in distribution through Lowes rather than traditional print media. That's almost always a better use of money for a smaller company.

I would also counter that ShopSmith makes ShopSmith. Their competitors are part of huge conglomerates that make all kinds of things in huge volume. To a publisher they represent a lot more potential advertising, whether for their WW mag or another publication that aligns with other products they make. ShopSmith could throw every dollar they have at advertising and not win that battle.

Basically, ShopSmith is sticking to their own game plan. They will never be one of the big boys, and thats OK. Recognizing that and not changing their business model to mirror something that they aren't is a sign of good managment. Good reviews do not equal more business or more profit. Our most unprofitable project at work recently won lots of awards and great reviews. That doesn't pay the bills or change the fact that it was a debacle from day 1.

I totally agree with the above statements. Shopsmith demos at Lowes is best solution for selling Shopsmith that I have seen in the past 20 years. After Shopsmith closed all their retail stores 20 years ago, there has been no cost effective method that I have seen or tired to use myself to sell Shopsmiths. I had 3 reduced to 1 Shopsmiths present in my Home Show booth for the past 10 years (30 some shows). I tried every marketing technique I could think of to sell more reconditioned Shopsmiths for many years. Since there are very few shop classes, if any, available in High Schools these days, younger people are mostly interested in working with their hands on computers and games. They do not seem to have the time (no jobs, 2 jobs, babies) to have any hands-on hobbies like woodworking, auto repair, electrical & plumbing. I learned all of these areas when younger. Less than 1% of the people passing my booth would even stop to ask questions, most age 50 or older. If I could get 5 people interested in discussing Shopsmith out of 5,000 - 7,000 people passing each show, I would consider it a good show. I really did not believe Shopsmith would survive for the past 5 years but it great that they did and I try to buy my Shopsmith parts from them.

This Forum has been outstanding in helping existing and new owners learn more about their Shopsmith. Thanks.

letterk · Post by **letterk** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:06 pm

If you look at the google magazine archives you'll notice that when Shopsmith regularly advertised in Popular Machanics/popular Science in the 60s, 70s and 80s they had reviews of their products.

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tb ... mith&btnG=

Here is a Mark 2 on a homemade Mark VII base. Probably could do the same with a Mark V.

http://books.google.com/books?id=rtMDAA ... nd&f=false