Incra TS LS vs 520 upgrade

reddog5362 · Post by **reddog5362** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:20 pm

Ok guys hoping some body can give me some thoughts on the Incra vs the 520 upgrade for a 510 machine. Looking at the special offer I could pick up the incra and some of the accessories for the cost of the upgrade from 510 to 520. I would like some input on a couple things.

What advantage does the 520 fence offer vs. the 510?

What are the strengths of the Incra fence over a traditional fence ala the 510/520 fence?

What I'm trying to figure out is if the Incra would offer the advantages of the 520 upgrade to my work style and add the precision operation incra is known for.

Thanks guys

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:28 pm

reddog5362 wrote:Ok guys hoping some body can give me some thoughts on the Incra vs the 520 upgrade for a 510 machine. Looking at the special offer I could pick up the incra and some of the accessories for the cost of the upgrade from 510 to 520. I would like some input on a couple things.

What advantage does the 520 fence offer vs. the 510?

What are the strengths of the Incra fence over a traditional fence ala the 510/520 fence?

What I'm trying to figure out is if the Incra would offer the advantages of the 520 upgrade to my work style and add the precision operation incra is known for.

Thanks guys

I own both 520 fence and the Incra fence. The two are very different. Yes in the past I also owned a 510 fence which due to difficulties in accuracy I couldn't replace fast enough. My first fence was a 520 which has a double very simple and accurate to use lock. I should explain my first Mark V was a 520. The second machine came to me as an abused 510. I found the fence difficult to obtain and replaced it with the 520 fence. So yes I am biased. Please note that the tables and rails used on the 520 are extruded and easily adjustable.

As to the Incra TS fence I use mine occasionally but only when I am cutting numerous parts that require close tolerances. Such as cabinets. I am glad I own both but admit to finding the 520 set up most valuable. Jim

reible · Post by **reible** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:51 pm

Hi,

If you can afford it get both.

If not then go with the 520 upgrade first. I too had a 510 but it was after I had upgraded my 500 to a 520 so when I got the 510 it was like a step backwards. I tried to justify not upgrading the 510 but couldn't, just wasn't that happy with it. Now I have two 520's (plus two 500's and a 10ER)

The incra system is really quite different then the 520 system and most people will live there life without it and be happy. Likewise we have a lot of happy 510 users here.

I do not have the same Incra rig that shopsmith is selling but I do have a Jointech saw train (they are now out of business) which I felt was superior to the Incra system on the shopsmith. I do own an Incra LS jig with many many accessories also, I reserve it for router table work.

To be honest the 520 fence is in use most of the time. I'd say only a few percent of the time do I feel the need for something more. Of course it really depends on what you are doing and how much you expect to gain from spending more money. I'm glad I've got what I've got but most people here would look at it as over-kill. You can always add the Incra stuff later if you find you need/want it.

Ed

reddog5362 · Post by **reddog5362** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:22 pm

I guess what's really driving the question is the SS special offer email I just got with the Incra on sale for $373. The 520 upgrade for my machine runs $475. Is the 520 worth the extra $100? I find the 510 fence to be adequate even though it's fussy and awkward. Once it's set right which is the fussy part, I haven't had problems with it moving on me. It's awkward to remove and slide. I wouldn't call it accurately repeatable for detail work but for general use it's sufficient. As I understand it the advantages to the 520 fence are:

- less fussy to set
- easier to move and remove
- T slots
- better repeatabillity

Am I missing something else?

I know little about the Incra other than what I can find on their site. I guess I don't really understand how it's different from any other fence. I mean beyond the extra accuracy and ability to repeat a set up. In what way is it a different animal from a 520 fence? Can it not be used for rip cuts? For the price of the 520 upgrade I could buy the Incra and a predrilled table to leave it mounted on. Is the big disadvantage to it the set up time?

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:07 pm

reddog5362 wrote:I guess what's really driving the question is the SS special offer email I just got with the Incra on sale for $373. The 520 upgrade for my machine runs $475. Is the 520 worth the extra $100? I find the 510 fence to be adequate even though it's fussy and awkward. Once it's set right which is the fussy part, I haven't had problems with it moving on me. It's awkward to remove and slide. I wouldn't call it accurately repeatable for detail work but for general use it's sufficient. As I understand it the advantages to the 520 fence are:

- less fussy to set
- easier to move and remove
- T slots
- better repeatabillity

Am I missing something else?

I know little about the Incra other than what I can find on their site. I guess I don't really understand how it's different from any other fence. I mean beyond the extra accuracy and ability to repeat a set up. In what way is it a different animal from a 520 fence? Can it not be used for rip cuts? For the price of the 520 upgrade I could buy the Incra and a predrilled table to leave it mounted on. Is the big disadvantage to it the set up time?

I use and am thankful for the 520 every time I saw, drill or for that matter just set up a job. At the risk of shouting YES IT IS WORTH FAR MORE THAN THE PRICE DIFFERENCE. You will use it far more often and smile frequently for the wisdom of the decision. Both Ed and I agree on this. Jim

reible · Post by **reible** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:00 am

OK I'll add a bit more.

The Incra system mounts to either a floating or fix extension table. I do not believe that it is possible to mount to just the main table. So when going to vertical drill press mode the system has to come off. If you want to do turning it is likely that it has to come off. Each and every time you use it you will have to have tubes installed and most likely both a floating and fix extension. Want to change height.... you won't like it with all the extra hardware involved

The fence on the Incra is long, nice for somethings but it also hangs out over the back, forgot the amount, 6" or more?? Gets in the way when storing or moving things about.

Now you want to tilt the table? No good thinking that will work, you have to take it off and it is not useable.

Cost, better add the installation kit $25.44, so total cost of more like $399.01. Agreed this is still much less then the 510 to 520 upgrade price of $475.69, a non sale price. I believe the last price I saw from the online demo thing was $428.12, the Lowes demo's also have it for lower amounts and reduced postage. In other words if you attend a Lowes demo you might find that the total cost (item and postage) could end up being with in a few $ of each other.

The cost of the 510 to 520 upgrade gets you the new massive rip fence, the extruded brackets for the main and fix/floating extension tables and the rip fence direct reading scales. I'd say it is still no contest with the upgrade path, 520 first.

Ed

reddog5362 · Post by **reddog5362** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:36 am

OK guys I think I'm understanding better. I appreciate the answers. I hadn't thought about not being able to tilt the table, or the way it would affect changing the height of the blade. I'm feeling the urge to upgrade the fence on the machine. When the email offer came through it got me to wondering.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:46 am

I have an Incra Fence and I use it frequently but it is set up on a table that is dedicated to the router.

If you have table saw work that requires precise fence positioning and is dedicated to table saw functions, it can't be beat.

It is, in my opinion, the way we use the Mark V that is incompatible to the Incra Fence. Don't change depth of cut, don't tilt the table and don't go vertical - you'll love the Incra Fence.

keakap · Post by **keakap** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:06 pm

dusty wrote:I have an Incra Fence and I use it frequently but it is set up on a table that is dedicated to the router.

If you have table saw work that requires precise fence positioning and is dedicated to table saw functions, it can't be beat.

It is, in my opinion, the way we use the Mark V that is incompatible to the Incra Fence. Don't change depth of cut, don't tilt the table and don't go vertical - you'll love the Incra Fence.

Good points, Dusty. I was sitting here reading the previous posts and agreeing with most of them, trying to figure out what I would do if I had to get rid of either 520 or TS-LS SS. Not an easy question. Finally decided it would be the 520 that would stay.
Your points about how we use them are right on. The INCRA is a special item. Couple points on the TS-LS: it can be used on the router table too, with the right accessories (for not too much $$). A big item for me- I have an Extension table setup for the TS-LS. It takes less than 60 seconds to remove it. Takes less than 60 seconds to reinstall it. If the main table carriage was not moved in the interim (mine usually isn't), and using two Stop Collars, one on Main, one on Extension, height is automatic, zero stop is automatic, parallelism is automatic.
Otherwise the zero set is all you usually need, and that's a few seconds.
To go from TS-LS to Mark5 I only remove the Ext. table w/ Incra on it. The whole thing. That's what- 15 seconds?
One thing (of many, as this is a complicated subject) to note is that I usually have the saw blade set to a certain height and it stays there (thru-cuts of course).
So some of the things that seem really awkward, like tilt table cuts, are not a big deal when you consider the whole Incra platform is gone in seconds.

But the 520 Upgrade, fence esp. included, was the best thing that happened to me since I got the SS.

(I hope I didn't make too many mistakes or omissions in my report above. It really is a complex issue, 520 vs TS-LS.)

wurlitzerwilly · Post by **wurlitzerwilly** » Sun May 12, 2013 4:26 pm

reddog5362 wrote:Ok guys hoping some body can give me some thoughts on the Incra vs the 520 upgrade for a 510 machine. Looking at the special offer I could pick up the incra and some of the accessories for the cost of the upgrade from 510 to 520. I would like some input on a couple things.

What advantage does the 520 fence offer vs. the 510?

What are the strengths of the Incra fence over a traditional fence ala the 510/520 fence?

What I'm trying to figure out is if the Incra would offer the advantages of the 520 upgrade to my work style and add the precision operation incra is known for.

Thanks guys

I recently acquired an Incra Ultra Fence for my new router setup and having seen the demo videos, I'm thoroughly convinced I did the right thing. The repeatability and accuracy is incredible and will suit me well.

I've also had the Shopsmith/LS positioner for a while, but had not gotten round to installing it until today.

My instructions don't mention attaching the positioner to the fixed table, but I can't see why it can't be used in place of a floating table. There is an extra foot supplied to allow the fixed table to support the floating table from beneath, to save using the telescopic supports, but I can't see why the fixed table can't be used.

I've purchased an extra floating table, so that I can leave the Incra permanently attached. So far I've found it very easy to remove the entire assembly, which takes no longer than removal of any other 'clutter' if I want to use the other facilities. Just simply remove and go straight to drill press mode - no problem.

The Incra fence will slide far enough back so that I can still use my original 520 fence if I want. With the Incra fence slid towards the blade, none of the required hardware protrudes past the end of the Shopsmith support legs.

I don't think you can really go without the 520 fence. It can be used as a fence or support in Drill Press mode, where it would not be possible to use the Incra.

One useful thing for me is that I already have the Incra Template Library for my Ultra Fence and I can use the templates on the Shopsmith version. I'm not sure if many folks appreciate what can be done with the Incra fences when equipped with the Template Library.

I have one of the best Lee dovetail jigs around for router use, but having seen the Incra demos, I think it may become more and more redundant, as the ease and repeatability of the Incra are far easier to use, without the constant need for trial cuts and the subsequent wastage.