How many are able to work in your shop this month?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:28 pm

Methinks the devil may be in the details. I just do not have visibility to see them.

Question is, has all the 'surplus($ in less $ out) always been 'invested' and gee who is that entity selling/repaying those bonds?

Finally why so much 'inference' with minimal 'details'.

There maybe a reason 'conservative thinkers' are referred to as 'right' wingers.

Similar reasoning for 'left wing thinkers'.

Yes the right does have a lunatic fringe as well!:mad:

Labels have a polarization effect hence the mess in D.C.

Keep in mind the vocal right wingers posting here have seen a lot of past shenanigans on the political scene and have observed our decline into the abyss we are currently in.

FWIW I blame my state's(KY) senior senator for much of the mess. He has never had my vote in spite of some poor alternatives along the way. I
have been known to abstain!

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:46 pm

davebodner wrote:I see the right-wing anger-fest has resurrected itself. I, like most others, am disinclined to give it anymore attention than necessary. However, when a thread with this much disinformation goes on for this long, I can no longer hold my tongue.

I can't reply to everything, but I'll address this:

That surplus has always been invested in interest-bearing bonds with an organization that so far has an excellent repayment record. Let's hope the record remains unblemished as we move toward the debt-ceiling later this month.

The accountants who look at the solvency of SS take the interest into account. So Ed, you're assertion is wrong. Here's the official word: http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html#a0=1 A couple more clicks will tell you the interest rate is essentially determined by the market.

And whether you regard the government as a good debt-risk is immaterial. The numbers simply don't support your assertion.

Why is this right wing anger why isn't it the anger of every American? Does anyone believe there is a way out of this mess?

You say the numbers don't support my assertion. I will be first to agree. That is because the numbers are generated by politicians for people stupid enough to elect those politicians.

Example the interest paid on this "loan" is artificially low. Why? Because if the interest wasn't being kept low the mess would look worst than it does. Unfortunately the method to keep the interest low is making a bigger mess.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:54 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:Why is this right wing anger why isn't it the anger of every American? Does anyone believe there is a way out of this mess?

You say the numbers don't support my assertion. I will be first to agree. That is because the numbers are generated by politicians for people stupid enough to elect those politicians.

Example the interest paid on this "loan" is artificially low. Why? Because if the interest wasn't being kept low the mess would look worst than it does. Unfortunately the method to keep the interest low is making a bigger mess.

More nebulous inferences. This time from the right!:eek:

Well never fear, the bureaucracy has ground to a halt. Only 'necessary' 'services' are operating.

With any luck only 'necessary' services will be restored!

keakap · Post by **keakap** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:46 pm

davebodner wrote:...
That surplus has always been invested in interest-bearing bonds with an organization that so far has an excellent repayment record. ...

L O L !

I. O. U.'s. From the left pocket into the right pocket.
Fantasy interest from fantasy bonds.

And who is that nameless "organization" ?

This is funny.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:55 pm

JPG40504 wrote:More nebulous inferences. This time from the right!:eek:

Well never fear, the bureaucracy has ground to a halt. Only 'necessary' 'services' are operating.

With any luck only 'necessary' services will be restored!

I like that plan!!!!!!!:D

dickg1 · Post by **dickg1** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:00 pm

davebodner wrote: That surplus has always been invested in interest-bearing bonds with an organization that so far has an excellent repayment record. Let's hope the record remains unblemished as we move toward the debt-ceiling later this month.

The accountants who look at the solvency of SS take the interest into account. So Ed, you're assertion is wrong. Here's the official word: http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html#a0=1 A couple more clicks will tell you the interest rate is essentially determined by the market.
.

davebonder,
I have no problem with whatsoever you have asserted in your post. What, i think, you have overlooked is those bonds need to be redeemed in order that the recipients receive their payments when due. Unfortunately, our federal government needs, for the most part, to borrow the funds that will allow those bonds to be redeemed over and above what current receipts will allow and that is the rub. As the President has just today stated if the debt ceiling is not raised social security payments will not be made. By the way, it was LBJ who convinced Congress to "borrow" the money from the SS funds and replace the borrowed money with bonds so that during the Vietnam war we could have our "guns and butter". Not too bad an idea in a growing economy, but we are not there anymore and might not be in a long time because of the growth in part time jobs we have been experiencing.

Dick

keakap · Post by **keakap** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:05 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:Why is this right wing anger why isn't it the anger of every American? ...

Why name-calling? Well I understand it is the cardinal rule of the left: if you have nothing valid or truthful to contribute, name-call.

The old Beck shows were the best example. He would report about something and play audios or more usually videos of it to confirm.
The left would immediately call him every vile, disgusting, irrelevant name they could dredge up while declaring he was lying, and offering no counter.
His response, if any, was to re-play the video. The real, complete, uncontestable, actual video. More name calling from the left, still no counter, and now add epithets bigot, hate monger, racist etc., for playing the actual video of the actual speech or event! The video!.

Amazing to see.
and funny!

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:33 pm

keakap wrote:(did it again) PV equals Photo Voltaic. As in sun-power panels on the roof. Et cetera. Watt we generate goes to cancel what we use off the grid, with excess coming as a credit aginst future usage. Onliest thing on the bill is administrative fees. So running the A/C all day costs nothing.

So WHAT'S the PAYBACK amount? 10 15 years?

keakap · Post by **keakap** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:36 pm

beeg wrote:So WHAT'S the PAYBACK amount? 10 15 years?

I don't recall. If I happen upon the paperwork I'll get the number for you.
For us it's a bit irrelevant. We aren't going to be in this house beyond whatever time it is (probably in that 10-15 range or close to it I guess). The free hot water and free electric from solar will more than cover costs when added into the sale price.

At the rate we use E now, we'd be payin 4 to 5 hunnert a month, so in 10 to 15 that would be 48000 to 60000 (10) or out to 72,000 to 90,000 (15).
That's a lot of free pizza and beer, and not coming out of my neighbor's wallets.

And the return is going to shrink for new users. The power company is already trying to get rates changed and reduce the number of customers who will be "allowed " on the grid in future, 'cause PV customers are passing so much power to the system that they are realizing reduced profits overall. [What scam you say? It's complicated, but one thing we're seeing is that the power Co. isn't straining quite so hard as we thought to produce energy. They don't really want more efficient cheaper power, they want cash.]

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:40 pm

keakap wrote:I don't recall. If I happen upon the paperwork I'll get the number for you.
For us it's a bit irrelevant. We aren't going to be in this house beyond whatever time it is (probably in that 10-15 range or close to it I guess). The free hot water and free electric from solar will more than cover costs when added into the sale price.

At the rate we use E now, we'd be payin 4 to 5 hunnert a month, so in 10 to 15 that would be 48000 to 60000 (10) or out to 72,000 to 90,000 (15).
That's a lot of free pizza and beer, and not coming out of my neighbor's wallets.

And the return is going to shrink for new users. The power company is already trying to get rates changed and reduce the number of customers who will be "allowed " on the grid in future, 'cause PV customers are passing so much power to the system that they are realizing reduced profits overall. [What scam you say? It's complicated, but one thing we're seeing is that the power Co. isn't straining quite so hard as we thought to produce energy. They don't really want more efficient cheaper power, they want cash.]

They don't really want more efficient cheaper power, they want cash.

Now who would have thought that was what they were after?????