Power Issues

[woodhead52]

Sorry for so much detail, but I am trying to anticipate possible questions and answer them in advance. I'm pretty sure or at least I'm hoping I have a switch problem. I know that SS has used many different switches over the years (two styles, but several different brands and or configurations) so I've done my best to explain my situation. Pictures also follow. You can skip right to the questions or read all of the explanations I provided first.

I've been doing the recommended maintenance on my new-to-me 520 getting it ready to use. I did the I purchased the Nick Engler Reference DVD's and have been doing the Critical Maintenance Cleaning and Lubrication per Nicks Video of the same name. After doing the Headstock cleaning and lubrication this afternoon I developed a power issue. I've checked the cord and it seems to be in good shape. I discovered that the plug on the cord was damaged when I inspected the SS, so, the first thing I did after getting it home was replace it. The SS did run when I inspected it.

Here is what happened:

1. As per the video I plugged the SS in and switched it on and ran it up to high speed. If memory serves it hesitated before starting. I may have switched it off and then on again, but now I'm not really sure. I ran it up to high speed to get the sheaves in proper position for cleaning and lubrication and turned off and unplugged the SS.
2. Then I did the maintenance, including turning the power on and blowing out the opened headstock with my air compressor (AC). I did trip a breaker forgetting that the AC and SS were on the same 20 Amp circuit.
3. Switched the SS and AC off and flipped the breaker back on. Then I switched on the SS and finished blowing it out with the air in the AC tank (the AC remained off). I believe there was a hesitation and I may have even had to flip the SS Switch on and off to get it to start that time as well.
4. After completing the inside of headstock and quill maintenance I switched on the SS and moved the grip knob on the speed changer to top center in order to locate the 3/32 allen set screw and remove the dial to clean behind it. Again there was power hesitation.
5. Then I tried switching the SS on again and this time it did not turn on, nor has it since. Trying the switch several times I did hear it start to engage, kind of a bump sound, but never a hum.

Here is where I am:

1. I rechecked the new plug and it is fine.
2. I've made sure there is power at the outlet and the power cord is plugged into it.
3. To my understanding, that leaves the switch or the motor as the problem. Personally, I'm hoping it's the switch, but that is the part of of my dilemma that brings me here.
4. I know how to test the wires, to either eliminate or prove the switch, but I don't see how I can do it without ruining the switch.
5. The switch is the newer safety switch. I guess it's a single pole double throw switch. It has four wires connected to it. The switch appears to have been constructed with two black and two white lead wires built into the switch. A black and white on the on side and and a black and white on the off side. Thus connecting the neutral whites and the power blacks when the switch is in the on position. These wires are connected to the cord and motor wires via insulated disconnect tabs. These darn things are positioned in such a way as to be totally frustrating. They neither come completely out of the switch hole in the head stock nor is it possible to work with them inside the headstock, making it quite a challenge to take advantage of the their disconnect function. Another couple of inches of wire would have eliminate this problem.

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Here are my Questions:

What's my best course of action? Cut the wires loose directly below the switch, rendering it unusable. If the switch is bad then this is okay, but if it's the motor then I've ruined the switch.

If it turns out to be the motor, is this something I can do myself? I know it will mean removing the motor which means removing the lower sheaves and the belt then getting them back together with the new motor. I have plenty of tools, I'm just not sure what this task requires. Actually even if the motor is not the problem I'd like to get it out anyway just to clean it up better.

So, in summary I'd like to test the motor and the switch without damaging either and I'd like to clean my motor better which I believe would involve removing and replacing it in the Headstock.

Thanks.

[SDSSmith]

You might consider extending the quill and see if that provides you with enough room get your hand in there to pull the wires off of the switch.

[wa2crk]

I believe that the wires are supposed to through the wire clip in the photo. Also the wires are not supposed to catch on the headstock lock bar(the threaded bar that controls the lock wedges. The Nick Engler videos on the web I believe show the wires being long enough to come through the headstock. Look for the video showing how to change the switch.
If you flip the switch and nothing happens until you turn the switch off and then back on I would change the switch as a precaution. (not expensive). Make sure you put the wires back in the retaining clip to prevent them from getting caught in the quadrant gears.
Bill V

[SDSSmith]

One other thought, if you have four wires coming out of the switch it is a double pole switch. Shopsmith now sends a single pole switch as a replacement. Once you get the switch out and can test it, it is probable that only one side of the switch has failed. In this case, you can tie the neutral from the motor and line cord together and switch the hot leg on the good side of the switch. This way you can use the machine while you wait for a replacement switch.

[woodhead52]

You might consider extending the quill and see if that provides you with enough room get your hand in there to pull the wires off of the switch.

The wires run below the quill, so it's not taking up any slack.

Thanks though.

I believe that the wires are supposed to through the wire clip in the photo. Also the wires are not supposed to catch on the headstock lock bar(the threaded bar that controls the lock wedges. The Nick Engler videos on the web I believe show the wires being long enough to come through the headstock. Look for the video showing how to change the switch.
If you flip the switch and nothing happens until you turn the switch off and then back on I would change the switch as a precaution. (not expensive). Make sure you put the wires back in the retaining clip to prevent them from getting caught in the quadrant gears.
Bill V

I removed the wires from the clip in order to pull the switch out as far as possible. I will put them back inside the clip when I'm done. Thanks

One other thought, if you have four wires coming out of the switch it is a double pole switch. Shopsmith now sends a single pole switch as a replacement. Once you get the switch out and can test it, it is probable that only one side of the switch has failed. In this case, you can tie the neutral from the motor and line cord together and switch the hot leg on the good side of the switch. This way you can use the machine while you wait for a replacement switch.

What your saying is correct, thanks for pointing it out. My problem is still, at least as I see it, how to get the dang thing disconnected from the cord and pump wires without having to cut any wires.

[crosscreekcraig]

If that switch is the original (I assume it is) then those terminals are probably stuck together pretty good. I would try a pair of needle nose pliers through the inspection port while holding the switch outside if you can't reach them sufficiently with your bare hand. Grab the tail of the spade connector rather than the wire itself.

Here is a great resource for Shopsmith maintenance and repair - Jacob was very helpful when I was overhauling and upgrading my machine.
http://www.jacobs-repairshop.com/

[wa2crk]

Woodhead
Try this link.


http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... Switch.htm

[joshh]

Definitely watch the link above. I think your problem is in the switch.


If it turns out to not be the switch and is in the motor, you can probably fix it yourself unless it is shorted or the windings are burnt. Do you know what brand motor is in it? GE, Emerson, AO Smith? There is a post from Bill Mayo with the resistance specs to test the motor. I'll try to find it.

This thread has tons of information (probably overkill for your purposes). It's not "technically" completed (what the hell is taking me so long?). I still need to update a parts list, and other small stuff. https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=12664

[woodhead52]

If that switch is the original (I assume it is) then those terminals are probably stuck together pretty good. I would try a pair of needle nose pliers through the inspection port while holding the switch outside if you can't reach them sufficiently with your bare hand. Grab the tail of the spade connector rather than the wire itself.

Here is a great resource for Shopsmith maintenance and repair - Jacob was very helpful when I was overhauling and upgrading my machine.
http://www.jacobs-repairshop.com/

GOOD NEWS!

This is funny, but while you were probably posting this advice it's exactly what I was doing. I used the needle nose pliers from the outside of the switch hole to grab the neck of each tab coming off a switch dongle while I reached through the headstock and wiggled the attached wire holding the tab with my fingers. I had to rig up a light so I could see what I was doing which was part of my difficulty. Anyway mission accomplished I got the switch loose and then I jumped the neutral wires. Turns out the neutral side of the switch was bad so by disconnecting the neutrals from the switch and jumping them together the motor now runs. Glad to know it was just a switch. Here is a better picture of the switch.

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Thanks for the link. I've been to Jacob's website JoshH recommended it to me yesterday I believe. turns out Jacob lives about 5 miles from me. He's actually in the neighborhood adjoining my daughters. I think I'm going to get his videos I may drop him a call and see if I can pick them up from him personally.

Woodhead
Try this link.
http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... Switch.htm

I actually did watch this video, but it actually made it look easier than this was. One thing Nick said which may have been the case is that switches go bad pretty frequently, This may not have been OEM. Who knows. This headstock was made in 1993.

Definitely watch the link above. I think your problem is in the switch.

If it turns out to not be the switch and is in the motor, you can probably fix it yourself unless it is shorted or the windings are burnt. Do you know what brand motor is in it? GE, Emerson, AO Smith? There is a post from Bill Mayo with the resistance specs to test the motor. I'll try to find it.

This thread has tons of information (probably overkill for your purposes). It's not "technically" completed (what the hell is taking me so long?). I still need to update a parts list, and other small stuff. https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=12664

JoshH, this looks like a terrific thread. I'm going to dig into it and try and learn something.

Appreciate all of the help Everyone!!:D

[dusty]

GOOD NEWS!

This is funny, but while you were probably posting this advice it's exactly what I was doing. I used the needle nose pliers from the outside of the switch hole to grab the neck of each tab coming off a switch dongle while I reached through the headstock and wiggled the attached wire holding the tab with my fingers. I had to rig up a light so I could see what I was doing which was part of my difficulty. Anyway mission accomplished I got the switch loose and then I jumped the neutral wires. Turns out the neutral side of the switch was bad so by disconnecting the neutrals from the switch and jumping them together the motor now runs. Glad to know it was just a switch. Here is a better picture of the switch.

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Thanks for the link. I've been to Jacob's website JoshH recommended it to me yesterday I believe. turns out Jacob lives about 5 miles from me. He's actually in the neighborhood adjoining my daughters. I think I'm going to get his videos I may drop him a call and see if I can pick them up from him personally.



I actually did watch this video, but it actually made it look easier than this was. One thing Nick said which may have been the case is that switches go bad pretty frequently, This may not have been OEM. Who knows. This headstock was made in 1993.




JoshH, this looks like a terrific thread. I'm going to dig into it and try and learn something.

Appreciate all of the help Everyone!!:D

This is a great thread with a great outcome. Problem Solved.

You current run condition (with the two neutral wires tied together) is my standard switch configuration. In fact, this is a configuration that Shopsmith recommended back in the days of Sawdust Sessions.

That switch (with the wires as part os the switch) is representative of the older switches. I strongly recommend that you lay in a spare.