Cedar Strip Canoe Build

algale · Post by **algale** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:53 pm

Not sure it makes a difference, Paul, but I should point out that, unlike every other canoe builder, the designer of this craft (Gil Gilpatrick) is an advocate of stemless building. So, after the form comes out, there is no stem left at all. The cedar strips are edge glued and end glued at the bow and stern. An interior epoxy fillet gives it its strength.

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:54 pm

Pretty simple really. Part "A" is a piece of plywood or whatever and it's attached to a batten. You bend the batten around the frames with the outside point touching the center line on the stem. Then you slide the little red bit up on the inside of the jig and mark a spot on the face of the stem. Do this at several points and join the dots with a batten. Think of the batten going right through the stem blank like you want the planking to. It's also called a step over jig. It has lots of uses.

Does that clarify the matter?

Paul M

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:55 pm

Personally I see no reason for a wooden stem here. I would use a fillet as well.

Paul M

algale · Post by **algale** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:24 pm

shipwright wrote:Pretty simple really. Part "A" is a piece of plywood or whatever and it's attached to a batten. You bend the batten around the frames with the outside point touching the center line on the stem. Then you slide the little red bit up on the inside of the jig and mark a spot on the face of the stem. Do this at several points and join the dots with a batten. Think of the batten going right through the stem blank like you want the planking to. It's also called a step over jig. It has lots of uses.

Does that clarify the matter?

Paul M

I'm not very familiar with sketchup, so that may be part of my problem. The link shows a small color sketch but when I download it and open it in my version of sketchup, I'm getting a wire frame sketch without color, so I'm not sure what the little red bit is you are referring to.

I gather the goal of the jig is to end up with a line on the stem form, back from the center line of the stem, and you remove the wood in between?

algale · Post by **algale** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:25 pm

shipwright wrote:Personally I see no reason for a wooden stem here. I would use a fillet as well.

Paul M

This would make Gil very happy. He has a little section in his book responding to the critics of his stemless designs.

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:40 pm

Then so would this. I built 16 of these and none of them has a stem. Epoxy is grand stuff!!

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Paul M

algale · Post by **algale** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:44 pm

shipwright wrote:Then so would this. I built 16 of these and none of them has a stem. Epoxy is grand stuff!!

[ATTACH]23153[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]23154[/ATTACH]

Paul M

Those are great! How long were/are they?

algale · Post by **algale** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:57 pm

Paul,

As long I have your attention on this thread, I've got another question for you. The glue that most people use for edge jointing the strips is titebond/titebond II.

After reading your blog over on LJs, I was toying with the idea of using hot hide glue. I think a faster tack might be helpful, especially if I go stapleless for the build. I believe it would also be easier to clean up during the sanding/fairing process. Finally, and I'm unsure of this, but I think it might be something I could use out in the unheated sunporch if my stripping goes into the winter months.

Since these canoes are skinned over and completely sealed inside and out with fiberglass/epoxy, I'm not sue that the fact that they will be in and out of water would be a problem for hide glue. Got any thoughts on that subject that you'd care to share?

Al

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:33 pm

Al, if it were me, I would use epoxy and wouldn't even consider Tightbond or any PVA glue. I wouldn't trust them for boats. That said all of my experience is with boats that are in the water all the time, not in and out like canoes. Same goes for hot (or liquid for that matter) hide glue. You are likely OK with the epoxy over them but why take the risk?

The Harbour Ferries are 20 feet and carry 12 passengers.
There's a project post on them here and a build blog is attached in the post.

algale · Post by **algale** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:25 pm

shipwright wrote:Al, if it were me, I would use epoxy and wouldn't even consider Tightbond or any PVA glue. I wouldn't trust them for boats. That said all of my experience is with boats that are in the water all the time, not in and out like canoes. Same goes for hot (or liquid for that matter) hide glue. You are likely OK with the epoxy over them but why take the risk?

The Harbour Ferries are 20 feet and carry 12 passengers.
There's a project post on them here and a build blog is attached in the post.

I did not see that coming! I think you may be the first person I know of to recommend epoxy to edge joint the strips. Funny, there's plenty of epoxy around for the fiberglassing -- so it isn't like canoe builders are unaware of the stuff.