Bit and Chisel mortising on a Shopsmith

[BuckeyeDennis]

Hey guys,

I'm trying to decide what style of mortise and tenon joinery I should tool up for. I have a SS tenon master jig and a stacked dado set, as well as a Craftsman (private-labeled Bosch) router table, so I think I should have the tenon-making part pretty well covered.

There's a nice stand-alone SS overarm pin router available on CL locally at a decent price. I figure that it would be dandy for routing mortises on the sides of workpieces. Make a couple of template jigs once, and then route away, without ever needing to set up stop blocks again. Making some loose tenons would be pretty easy with a router table. Routing mortises for the loose tenons on the ends of the mating workpieces seems like it should be a good application of the SS in horizontal boring mode, but I still haven't figured out a nice clean way to fixture for that.

All of which kinda makes me want to master hand-chisel techniques, and make traditional mortises. At least for cleanup, after hogging out the mortise with a drill or router. So then nice square traditional tenons would be just the thing.

I keep thinking that the "bit and chisel" mortising tools should be more efficient than hand chiseling, and keep an eye out for a deal. But I've read that Mark V's are not really beefy enough for the required forces. And also that sharpening the square chisels is a PITA.

Today, it dawned on me that the 10ER I picked up recently might well solve the "beefy machine" issue. No doubt Skou would agree with that! Anyone else have experience with that combo?

Has anyone divined their own "Holy Grail" of mortise and tenon making?

[skou]

Dennis, my newest ER came with the mortising rig. I just haven't tried it yet.
Only thing I can see, is table flex. That would be eliminated by having a block of wood under the table, when set in the drill-press mode. If you had a 12-16 inch length of 4X4, under the table, and resting on the base of the pivot, and lower the table and headstock the right amount, you'd have NO table flex. Also, with solid table rods, and thick wall way tubes, (.200) you'd eliminate a lot of flex, too.

(Oh, Dennis, amongst friends, I go by "Steve."):D (Usually, un-capitalized, like below.)

steve

[skou]

Today, it dawned on me that the 10ER I picked up recently...

Congrats are in order. "Welcome to the dark side, Luke.":D

Just remember Norm's warning. The most important safety tool, is between your ears. Use it! (Because the ER has few others.)

(Yes, I know Norm said the most important safety tool, is safety glasses, well, he's wrong. Safety glasses are #2!)

steve

[reible]

I would not want to guess at all the things I have used to do mortising.

I have done well using my 500 so long as I added a 2x4 from the outside edge of the table to the floor. The flex is too much other wise. I have not tried on my 510/520 but I'm sure they too will require out bound support. Like wise I have not used a 10er but I wouldn't be surprised if it too needed support to work well.

A lot of people try to speed things up by adding a lot of force. Not a good idea. The drill removes the main amount of material and the chisel takes the corners, it takes time for the material to be removed.

The chisels have grinding wheels with the required angles and there are instruction in the PTWFE for a simple jig to use to hold things. Bits can be touched up with files. The outside of the chisels work much better when polished. You can also purchase better sets then shopsmith sells, see lee valley for examples.

Bottom line is if you are planning on doing a lot of this work you might want to get a machine built to just do the holes, I personally don't do that much.

Router tables can be used as well, and some people like the above the table router position. I'm a fan of the older version of the over head router but the new version will do just fine for these applications. And remember you can do just the holes with the router then switch to a saw to do the other parts, any mixing and matching works.

Again as in most woodworking situations you do what works for you or what you have equipment to work with. I you have the $$ you might want to try a couple of ways.

Ed

[skou]

Ed, (Dennis) there is always the square-ish hole, with the round ends.

Drill the mortise, with a drill, or, better, an end mill. It will leave a "racetrack" (rounded ends, and straight sides) shaped hole, which is LOTS easier to fit than a square sided hole. The tenons can be rounded over, easily, with a rasp.

Unless someone actually opens up your mortises, no one will even know.

Just a suggestion.

steve

[BuckeyeDennis]

Congrats are in order. "Welcome to the dark side, Luke.":D

Just remember Norm's warning. The most important safety tool, is between your ears. Use it! (Because the ER has few others.)

(Yes, I know Norm said the most important safety tool, is safety glasses, well, he's wrong. Safety glasses are #2!)

steve

Thanks, Steve. That 10ER is a very cool machine, but it does give me a whole new appreciation for the standard machine warning: "Never wear loose-fitting clothes while operating"!

[BuckeyeDennis]

I would not want to guess at all the things I have used to do mortising.

I have done well using my 500 so long as I added a 2x4 from the outside edge of the table to the floor. The flex is too much other wise. I have not tried on my 510/520 but I'm sure they too will require out bound support. Like wise I have not used a 10er but I wouldn't be surprised if it too needed support to work well.

A lot of people try to speed things up by adding a lot of force. Not a good idea. The drill removes the main amount of material and the chisel takes the corners, it takes time for the material to be removed.

The chisels have grinding wheels with the required angles and there are instruction in the PTWFE for a simple jig to use to hold things. Bits can be touched up with files. The outside of the chisels work much better when polished. You can also purchase better sets then shopsmith sells, see lee valley for examples.

Bottom line is if you are planning on doing a lot of this work you might want to get a machine built to just do the holes, I personally don't do that much.

Router tables can be used as well, and some people like the above the table router position. I'm a fan of the older version of the over head router but the new version will do just fine for these applications. And remember you can do just the holes with the router then switch to a saw to do the other parts, any mixing and matching works.

Again as in most woodworking situations you do what works for you or what you have equipment to work with. I you have the $$ you might want to try a couple of ways.

Ed

Thanks, Ed. I'll check out those Lee Valley mortising chisels.

What do you think of this OPR deal: http://columbus.craigslist.org/tls/4168054433.html? The asking price started at $250, but it's been listed for a couple of months.

[Gene Howe]

Dennis,
I'd offer $150 and see where it goes from there. Wouldn't go over $175...Well, $200, but only if you really love it.

[forrestb]

After watching Norm put together a big mahogany door without cutting a single fixed tenon I was sold.

I advise that you check out slip, or loose, tenons. You do mortises in both pieces and make a loose tenon that ties both pieces together. It is much easier to fit the loose tenon to the mortise.

If you have a lot of m/t joints this technique will save you tons of time since all mortises are the same and the tenons are made in batch form.

A bookcase made for my inspiration had like 50 m/t joints - I would never have finished it otherwise.

Forrest

[BuckeyeDennis]

Dennis,
I'd offer $150 and see where it goes from there. Wouldn't go over $175...Well, $200, but only if you really love it.

Yep, $200 seems to be pretty close to top dollar for these. The highest that I've seen one go for was $225 on eBay, and that one was pristine. But then again, this one would be an easy lunch-hour pickup, so it gets bonus points for convenience. Nice casters, too.