Bit and Chisel mortising on a Shopsmith

[BuckeyeDennis]

After watching Norm put together a big mahogany door without cutting a single fixed tenon I was sold.

I advise that you check out slip, or loose, tenons. You do mortises in both pieces and make a loose tenon that ties both pieces together. It is much easier to fit the loose tenon to the mortise.

If you have a lot of m/t joints this technique will save you tons of time since all mortises are the same and the tenons are made in batch form.

A bookcase made for my inspiration had like 50 m/t joints - I would never have finished it otherwise.

Forrest

I can see that making the tenons, as well as the mortises in the sides of workpieces (e.g. table legs), would be quick and easy with loose tenons. Making those mortises is where I think the overarm pin router would shine. And unless it's a through tenon for show, I can't see any downside, either functionally or aesthetically.

But how do you cut the mortises on the ends of workpieces (e.g. table stretchers)?

I've gotta believe that the SS in horizontal boring mode would be a good tool for the job, but I haven't figured out a good way to fixture the workpiece and control the length of the mortise. Maybe some sort of sled with stop blocks?

I saw the Wood Whisperer make loose tenons look really easy with a Festool Domino joining machine, but that's way outside my toy budget.

[charlese]

...

1. But how do you cut the mortises on the ends of workpieces (e.g. table stretchers)?

2. I've gotta believe that the SS in horizontal boring mode would be a good tool for the job, but I haven't figured out a good way to fixture the workpiece and control the length of the mortise. Maybe some sort of sled with stop blocks?

3. I saw the Wood Whisperer make loose tenons look really easy with a Festool Domino joining machine, but that's way outside my toy budget.

1. Why not make tenons on the ends of table stretchers in lieu of mortises.

2. Horizontal boring is an excellent way to make mortises on the ends of workpieces. If the piece is short enough you can use the rip fence as a backup. If longer, use the miter gauge to stabilize along with clamps or extension table/floating tables and clamps or rip fence.

3. Loose tenons can be made with a thickness planer - or resawing along with a jointer, or sanding.

[BuckeyeDennis]

1. Why not make tenons on the ends of table stretchers in lieu of mortises.

'Cuz forrestb said that loose tenons are a lot easier!

I'm still trying to figure out the how and why.

[heathicus]

There will be times when loose tenons are easier, and times when they aren't. I'm no wood whisperer, just a mere mortal, but I would be hesitant to use loose tenons in end grain (such as at the end of a stretcher). I'd worry about it causing splits and cracks if the tenon and stretcher expanded/contracted at different rates or in different directions.

Plus, using loose tenons for everything gives you twice as many mortices to cut, and how to cut mortices was the question to begin with, right?

[SDSSmith]

Yep, $200 seems to be pretty close to top dollar for these. The highest that I've seen one go for was $225 on eBay, and that one was pristine. But then again, this one would be an easy lunch-hour pickup, so it gets bonus points for convenience. Nice casters, too.

I sold a bare bones overarm router without stand or table on the Bay for over $200 recently. The one you are looking at on craigslist looks really clean and allows for overarm and under table routing. I would check that the seller has the router plate inserts (one of them accepts the pin for pin routing). I also do not see the dust collection hose, plastic spacer block, some of the hardware for mounting the router to the arm and the hardware for mounting the fences.

I agree with Gene, offer $150 and go from there.

[charlese]

[quote="BuckeyeDennis"]'Cuz forrestb said that loose tenons are a lot easier! ]

I fully agree with Forrest that loose tenons are by far the quickest and easiest. Can't remember if he said this, but they also fit smoother.

Like I said above - in post #12 - mortises are pretty easy to make on a Shopsmith in the horizontal boring mode.

Also, mentioned above - is the Overarm router SPT. This attachment can easily be configured to work as a horizontal router. This can be used like the standard Mark V for making mortises.

[reible]

Thanks, Ed. I'll check out those Lee Valley mortising chisels.

What do you think of this OPR deal: http://columbus.craigslist.org/tls/4168054433.html? The asking price started at $250, but it's been listed for a couple of months.

The prices for these are all over the place. I've seen them sell for over $500 on ebay, then add a lot for shipping....

From the pictures the column looks especially shiny. It has "a" caster set which is useful and adds to it worth but is not original equipment. From what we can see the table looks OK but should be ask about as I have seen them in various damaged conditions.

The major thing will be the table insert and the three pins. The insert I don't think is around any more. The pins are around but expensive for what they are. The pins are used in the new system as are most of the parts in the head so replacements can be had from shopsmith. It is also missing bracing on the legs and I don't think you can get that anymore so that will be a home brew situation. As shown the table will be very unstable.

You can see a more then a page (32) pictures of mine here:

http://s589.photobucket.com/user/reible ... t=4&page=1

This might well be worth the time print some of the pictures to show how it should look so you can reference them as needed.

Ed

[BuckeyeDennis]

The prices for these are all over the place. I've seen them sell for over $500 on ebay, then add a lot for shipping....

From the pictures the column looks especially shiny. It has "a" caster set which is useful and adds to it worth but is not original equipment. From what we can see the table looks OK but should be ask about as I have seen them in various damaged conditions.

The major thing will be the table insert and the three pins. The insert I don't think is around any more. The pins are around but expensive for what they are. The pins are used in the new system as are most of the parts in the head so replacements can be had from shopsmith. It is also missing bracing on the legs and I don't think you can get that anymore so that will be a home brew situation. As shown the table will be very unstable.

You can see a more then a page (32) pictures of mine here:

http://s589.photobucket.com/user/reible ... t=4&page=1

This might well be worth the time print some of the pictures to show how it should look so you can reference them as needed.

Ed

Thanks, Ed. Those pictures answer a lot of questions. Plus, I can copy them to DropBox, and then pull them up on my iPad to show the owner what is missing!

The leg bracing looks easy enough to replace with some light steel angle. But what about the insert? If I had to make one, would it be much harder than making a ZCI?

[reible]

The insert would be harder then a zci but it could be done. It would be far easier if you had a sample to work off... I could do a drawing which would get you close or maybe someone here has a spare to part with or loan you to help you get yours made.

The other option is to just redo the whole plate. Making it your own design then allows for controlling the parts. A simpler design with simpler shapes would make life easier in the long run.

Ed

Thanks, Ed. Those pictures answer a lot of questions. Plus, I can copy them to DropBox, and then pull them up on my iPad to show the owner what is missing!

The leg bracing looks easy enough to replace with some light steel angle. But what about the insert? If I had to make one, would it be much harder than making a ZCI?

[keakap]

Hey guys,

I'm trying to decide what style of mortise and tenon joinery I should tool up for. I have a SS tenon master jig and a stacked dado set, as well as a Craftsman (private-labeled Bosch) router table, so I think I should have the tenon-making part pretty well covered.

There's a nice stand-alone SS overarm pin router available on CL locally at a decent price. I figure that it would be dandy for routing mortises on the sides of workpieces. Make a couple of template jigs once, and then route away, without ever needing to set up stop blocks again. Making some loose tenons would be pretty easy with a router table. Routing mortises for the loose tenons on the ends of the mating workpieces seems like it should be a good application of the SS in horizontal boring mode, but I still haven't figured out a nice clean way to fixture for that.

All of which kinda makes me want to master hand-chisel techniques, and make traditional mortises. At least for cleanup, after hogging out the mortise with a drill or router. So then nice square traditional tenons would be just the thing.

I keep thinking that the "bit and chisel" mortising tools should be more efficient than hand chiseling, and keep an eye out for a deal. But I've read that Mark V's are not really beefy enough for the required forces. And also that sharpening the square chisels is a PITA.

Today, it dawned on me that the 10ER I picked up recently might well solve the "beefy machine" issue. No doubt Skou would agree with that! Anyone else have experience with that combo?

Has anyone divined their own "Holy Grail" of mortise and tenon making?

Don't forget the bridle joint. There's a band saw cutting sequence that is almost automatic, fast, accurate and requires no measuring or layout (!). {Haven't tried it on the table saw yet.}