Make your own PowerPro anything

[beeg]

The demonstrator actually used his finger. The pawl destroyed itself and the blade but it saved the finger. I seem to remember that it was on Discovery channel, that high speed camera show. Name escapes me...

Dan

If it's the one I saw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTUOhYcw4ZY look at about 4:21 minutes and see him gently touching the SIDE of the blade.

[benush26]

My initial thoughts regarding the instant stop.
If the DVR motor can react quick enough to stop a catch when using the lathe, maybe that same instruction can cause the shaft to reverse itself at the same instant some sort of electric signal senses flesh and then instantly send millisecond signals instructing the shaft forward and reverse in a loop effectively stopping the shaft from any further movement, long enough for the system to instigate a halt. Kind of a shudder effect which may move the blade a minute amount, but keep actual movement to something under a thousandth or maybe even a hundredth). That should be enough to avoid serous damage to a finger or hand. It may draw blood, but nothing that a small band-aid wouldn't fix.

[danr]

If it's the one I saw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTUOhYcw4ZY look at about 4:21 minutes and see him gently touching the SIDE of the blade.

That's it. Side or front, he was on a tooth.
Just destroyed the hardware.
Dan

[JPG]

That's it. Side or front, he was on a tooth.
Just destroyed the hardware.
Dan

Do not forget the gunpowder that goes off to the cram the sacrificial wedge into the sacrificial blade.

If he had soooo much confidence, why did he not 'jam' his finger into the front of the blade?

I understand his caution, but disagree with the propaganda re his 'confidence'.

[lightnin]

Oh say you put this in a table saw would you be able to place the controls
somewhere convenient to access? are they married to the motor?

[billmayo]

My initial thoughts regarding the instant stop.
If the DVR motor can react quick enough to stop a catch when using the lathe, maybe that same instruction can cause the shaft to reverse itself at the same instant some sort of electric signal senses flesh and then instantly send millisecond signals instructing the shaft forward and reverse in a loop effectively stopping the shaft from any further movement, long enough for the system to instigate a halt. Kind of a shudder effect which may move the blade a minute amount, but keep actual movement to something under a thousandth or maybe even a hundredth). That should be enough to avoid serous damage to a finger or hand. It may draw blood, but nothing that a small band-aid wouldn't fix.

I had the identical thoughts at one time but it was wishful thinking. I had quite an elaborate test setup with cameras, strobe lights, temp probes, scopes with voltage, current and temp readings being collected when I was actively investigating dyramic braking and instant stopping of the Shopsmith motors or possibly motor replacements. I had borrowed some of the equipment and help from a local lab that did destructive motor testing as its business. I also used this equipment to load test motors as possible replacements for the Shopsmith motors.

The saw blade, motor rotor, pulleys and belt flex builds up an inertia that cannot be instantly stopped within one or two saw blade teeth. The best I could do was 3 teeth movement once which was not a successful result to me. Even with the saw blade directly on the motor shaft, I found I still got a couple of teeth movement before I could fully stop the motor shaft. I spent over a year playing in this area before giving up and returning the equipment.

[Ed in Tampa]

Since this is a community thread, and I feel chatty, I am going to expand on what Dusty has said.

Watching the nieces and nephews on both sides of our families, all who are out of college now, I've been amazed at the belief that has been conveyed to them that profit is a bad thing. Yep, it's socialism - or as I call it, "warmed-over Marxism run a muck". Recent surveys have shown this younger generation would prefer to work for non-profits, as if non-profits don't depend on the profits of others, and as they have come to believe, profit is a dirty word. When we see the Facebook posts of our N&Ns, my wife (I'm not on Facebook) tries to engage them gently about how economically ignorant they are. She does so "gently" because as she says, she doesn't want to shut down communication. But the worst one is her niece who teaches sociology at the junior college level. I shudder to think what Marxist clap-trap she is instilling in the next generation. But of course, it's not all about her. I well know that before and since the 1930's, capitalism has been under assault. The great disconnect is they (N&N) don't see that their wonderful standard of living has its roots in capitalism.

I don't know if SS is gouging or not. Hard to determine. What I do know is all new technologies are high priced and they eventually come down if left to the market place (i.e. government keeps their fingers off). I can't believe (now) what I paid for my first computer. In November my son rebuilt our "brain box" with memory, speed, and versatility that I could only dream about in 1985, and all for $350. I have a hunch the PP will become more accessible and cheaper in price. Whether some of us live to see it is another question.

Let me take this thread back off track and respond here.
I have nothing against profit. But there is two schools of thought.
1 Sell something for a $1 profit and sell a million and make a million dollars.
2 Sell something for a $1 million dollar profit, sell one take the million and run.

My contention is Shopsmith already priced themselves out of the market which forced them into bankruptcy and remaking themselves.

To me the Power Pro was their goose that laid the golden egg. If done correctly I believe Shopsmith would be around for many generations, done incorrectly they would make some money and the owners could go retire in luxury but all SS owners "US" would be left with nothing.

I believe had Shopsmith taken the make $1 profit route their market would be limitless. Now everyone has said many things about my view one of them being I don't realize how much new technology costs. Okay let us say they are right. Now we see how low the actual market cost is, so we should now be seeing a big cut in SS prices. Anyone want to hold their breath until that happens?

I want to see Shopsmith profit but I also want to see them build their business not to grab what they can and run but to have a business that will employ many more generations of their family and the families of their workers. Is that so wrong or so anti capitalism?

[benush26]

I had the identical thoughts at one time but it was wishful thinking. I had quite an elaborate test setup with cameras, strobe lights, temp probes, scopes with voltage, current and temp readings being collected when I was actively investigating dyramic braking and instant stopping of the Shopsmith motors or possibly motor replacements. I had borrowed some of the equipment and help from a local lab that did destructive motor testing as its business. I also used this equipment to load test motors as possible replacements for the Shopsmith motors.

The saw blade, motor rotor, pulleys and belt flex builds up an inertia that cannot be instantly stopped within one or two saw blade teeth. The best I could do was 3 teeth movement once which was not a successful result to me. Even with the saw blade directly on the motor shaft, I found I still got a couple of teeth movement before I could fully stop the motor shaft. I spent over a year playing in this area before giving up and returning the equipment.

Thanks for trying! I would never have given it the thorough route you did trying to achieve the desired result. With the knowledge that even with direct attachment of the blade the results were not acceptable eliminates my thoughts of using an offset cam shaft mated to direct drive. Oh well!

Be well,
Ben

[benush26]

Let me take this thread back off track and respond here.
I have nothing against profit. But there is two schools of thought.
1 Sell something for a $1 profit and sell a million and make a million dollars.
2 Sell something for a $1 million dollar profit, sell one take the million and run.

My contention is Shopsmith already priced themselves out of the market which forced them into bankruptcy and remaking themselves.

To me the Power Pro was their goose that laid the golden egg. If done correctly I believe Shopsmith would be around for many generations, done incorrectly they would make some money and the owners could go retire in luxury but all SS owners "US" would be left with nothing.

I believe had Shopsmith taken the make $1 profit route their market would be limitless. Now everyone has said many things about my view one of them being I don't realize how much new technology costs. Okay let us say they are right. Now we see how low the actual market cost is, so we should now be seeing a big cut in SS prices. Anyone want to hold their breath until that happens?

I want to see Shopsmith profit but I also want to see them build their business not to grab what they can and run but to have a business that will employ many more generations of their family and the families of their workers. Is that so wrong or so anti capitalism?

I wonder if this may be a case of first adopters paying the price for innovation?

In the same vein as Tesla automobiles and inventiveness of the same ilk, those that purchase the innovations first are those that pay a larger share of R&D. Could it be that as the DVR motor gains a following in other products, the cost of production will come down as will the cost of a M7 (or maybe the true M8 or should that be M9 ) in years to come.

I don't know the pricing history of the ER or Mark V. Does any one with that knowledge know if the initial models were a higher price than the same model in subsequent years? OR maybe the initial price had very little profit margin and SS made their money as more inventory went out the door?

Ultimately what someone is willing to pay is the actual cost. If the M7 was $500 more how many fewer would buy it? How about at $1000 or $1500 more. I don't know that that follows with Ed's idea of selling one at 1 million, but there are those who would rather pay a huge sum just to say that they own one. Has the demographic for Shopsmith changed? Are they looking to create a new market? Would more NEW customers buy the entire system if the price were $1000 less? What price point would it take for the majority of Mark V 500 - 510 owners to buy a whole new system? What would happen if the cost of the headstock replacement dropped to $1500 or $1100 for the DIY version with a 6 month wait while Shopsmith ramped up enough to build them all? We each have an internal price point (actually some may also have an external price point, but I divorced mine decades ago, but supplanted by Social Security ). What is it?

Did Shopsmith look at any, some or all of those questions before they headed down the PowerPro path? No matter what the answer may be, we have what they have given us. At a price they have chosen.

For me the price was an amount "spent" not "paid". (Pay versus spend is a psychological ploy used by sales staff - You have to PAY BILLS but get to SPEND on VACATION). If the price of the M7 was less, would I have purchased sooner? I guess that depends upon how much less. Truthfully if the price through Lowe's on-line was the same as from the shows, I would have bought it MUCH sooner. But then Lowe's has inflated their price. I presume to get profits from two sources, the interest for the charge account and recoup any amount paid Shopsmith PLUS a profit. So then we have the question, how many here begrudge Lowe's their profit?

A vicious never ending circle of want and or greed? A realistic focus of achieving what ever you choose to achieve? Somewhere along that continuum? Personally I believe the answer stems from where you are viewing the situation. But then again, that's just me.

Be well,
Ben

[JPG]

Let me take this thread back off track and respond here.
I have nothing against profit. But there is two schools of thought.
1 Sell something for a $1 profit and sell a million and make a million dollars.
2 Sell something for a $1 million dollar profit, sell one take the million and run.

My contention is Shopsmith already priced themselves out of the market which forced them into bankruptcy and remaking themselves.

To me the Power Pro was their goose that laid the golden egg. If done correctly I believe Shopsmith would be around for many generations, done incorrectly they would make some money and the owners could go retire in luxury but all SS owners "US" would be left with nothing.

I believe had Shopsmith taken the make $1 profit route their market would be limitless. Now everyone has said many things about my view one of them being I don't realize how much new technology costs. Okay let us say they are right. Now we see how low the actual market cost is, so we should now be seeing a big cut in SS prices. Anyone want to hold their breath until that happens?

I want to see Shopsmith profit but I also want to see them build their business not to grab what they can and run but to have a business that will employ many more generations of their family and the families of their workers. Is that so wrong or so anti capitalism?

Whatever happened to 'charge what the market will bear'?:D




We may not 'like' it, but tis good business!;)