aline gauge which one

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:22 pm

I second that Well said Farmer.

I forgive you for leaving me high and dry even if you do have to blame the poor doctor.

onevw · Post by **onevw** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:12 pm

I do not know what to thing about these reading. .005 difference between the
A-line-it and the PeckerWood unit.

Wow: Which one is correct, the A-line-it has a +- 5 inch reference to the slot the PeckerWood has only a +- 2 inch to the inside lower side groves of the slot.

From a non engineering view the longer reference would seam to give the true results but I can see this is going to take heck of lot more study.

O boy a chance to generate more useless data!

What do all of you think?

Rick

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:58 pm

onevw wrote:I do not know what to thing about these reading. .005 difference between the
A-line-it and the PeckerWood unit.

Wow: Which one is correct, the A-line-it has a +- 5 inch reference to the slot the PeckerWood has only a +- 2 inch to the inside lower side groves of the slot.

From a non engineering view the longer reference would seam to give the true results but I can see this is going to take heck of lot more study.

O boy a chance to generate more useless data!

What do all of you think?

Rick

What useless data? Is one correct and other in error or was the data improperly collected? No matter what the answer, it is not useless.

Now if you say you consider it superfluous data then there is no argument.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:59 pm

onevw wrote:...
O boy a chance to generate more useless data!

What do all of you think?

Rick

I agree!!;)

algale · Post by **algale** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:01 pm

onevw wrote:OK
I checked the slot to the blade with the a-line-it on found it out about .002

I then checked the same slot and blade with the Woodpecker unit and found it out about .008

Wow

Rick

You bought both dial indicators??? Well, serves you right then! I looked up the Woodpecker and without owning one I would be concerned about using it on the Shopsmith 510/520 tables which have grooves in them because the outboard support of the woodpecker gauge might ride partly in and and out of a groove and either force the body of the gauge to not register securely on the piece riding in the miter slot or your dial indicator might register off of the groove rather than the miter slot. Looks like it would work well on a solid table.

[ATTACH]23892[/ATTACH]
Al

BuckeyeDennis · Post by **BuckeyeDennis** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:09 pm

robinson46176 wrote:I would only add this: Keep in mind the medium that you are working with... WOOD... Which can move as far as the machine specks some of you are (over ) futzing with while you go eat lunch...

First you have to decide what exactly your hobby really is
Is it wood-working, wood-machining, or is it futzing with set-up specks.
I long ago accepted that my hobby is really shop, machines and tools. I do sometimes do a bit of wood-working. I still love the machines but I find myself grabbing a hand-tool more and more for small stuff.
It really doesn't matter which hobby you enjoy as long as you enjoy it and see it for what it really is.

I knew that planer tuneup post was going to stir up a debate ...

You make a very good point on the what-is-your-hobby thing. I think that mine is woodworking .. beautiful pieces of wood, and objects made therefrom, are what make me salivate.

But it drives me nuts if the tools push me into trial-and-error situations. I don't have enough experience to compensate with pure craftsmanship, so instead I turn to my engineering skills. Which means that to date, I have spent a fair amount more time tuning up machines than I have on crafting wood. But I still have faith that will change!

The planer tuneup is a good case in point. It all started when I set out to make a scrapbook-paper organizer for my wife. We had put a nice-but-obsolete cherry entertainment center in her basement scrapbooking room for her to store stuff in. The idea was to make a mail-sorter type thing that fit into the space where a 25" tube TV used to live. If the doors are closed, the organizer will be hidden. But I have some cherry lumber on hand with no better purpose, so what he heck, might as well make it nice. Who knows, someday it might be used as a standalone piece.

Then on to design and joinery. I decided that, hey, if I'm going to use cherry, then I might as well use dovetail joints to build the case. They would look nice, and I'd get to practice a new skill for when I really needed it. So out came the cheapo dovetail jig from HF.

The first time I had tried that jig, the results were awful, despite following the instructions carefully. A lot of trial and error is the recommended way to achieve a good joint. So for this project, I decided to tame that beast. I worked out the geometry and programmed it into a spreadsheet. (I know, it's a sickness.

) Then I set everything up according to the spreadsheet results and cut another test joint. The fit was much better this time, but still not great.

Well, I tracked down the source of the error, and it was because I was using nominal dimensions for the template thickness and finger spacing, dovetail angle, router-guide diameter, board thickness, etc. I measured the actual dimensions with some good dial calipers, input those into the spreadsheet, and set up the router and jig again. This time, the dovetails fit perfectly.

THAT is actually what motivated the precision planer alignment. I had proven to myself that minor variations in board thickness made it difficult to get good dovetail joints when using the HF dovetail jig.

All in all, I would say that a router jig with a precision setup is a fine way to go if making stuff in volume. But if I had it to do all over again, I'd probably spend the time learning to make nice hand-cut dovetails!

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:35 pm

This is kind of a third cousin branch-off of this thread...

We keep the Direct TV DVR sat to record a number of shows when ever they come on. One such show is Roy Underhill's.
I have said for several years here to "Never measure when you can superimpose". On one of Roy's shows I watched tonight his guest was making a kind of fancy all wooden square. He made the statement: "Measuring is the enemy of precision..."

He just started making it. I never saw him actually measure anything by the numbers. He mostly used a marking gauge by "the eyeball then try and adjust" process.

.

billmayo · Post by **billmayo** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:04 pm

robinson46176 wrote:This is kind of a third cousin branch-off of this thread...
We keep the Direct TV DVR sat to record a number of shows when ever they come on. One such show is Roy Underhill's.
I have said for several years here to "Never measure when you can superimpose". On one of Roy's shows I watched tonight his guest was making a kind of fancy all wooden square. He made the statement: "Measuring is the enemy of precision..."
He just started making it. I never saw him actually measure anything by the numbers. He mostly used a marking gauge by "the eyeball then try and adjust" process.

.

My carpenter father very seldom used a ruler or tape measure. He used 3/4" and smaller square longer pieces of wood for most measurements. He made beautiful furniture too. It did not rub off on me. I am always misplacing my tape measures to where I mostly use 3/4" X 3/4" X 8' wood strips for measuring for most of my cabinet, bench, remodeling and home additions building. I always had problems following wood plans and assembly it yourself wood furniture instructions. For me, " Close Counts" has been my motto for woodworking.

keakap · Post by **keakap** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:14 pm

robinson46176 wrote:... deep into all of this "measuring mania" in order to use and enjoy wood-working especially as Shopsmiths fit into the hobby. My advice to any newbie is to grab the Shopsmith Allen wrench and follow the alignment procedure originally laid out by Shopsmith back in the 1950's.
Then decide which branch of the hobby you enjoy the most.
Different strokes for different folks... They can all be fun and that is all that really matters. That and accepting what your actual hobby really is.
.

Having gone through all the phases (well maybe not all the way though yet) there's still one more piece of the measuring mania of value, for me. As long as the workpiece comes out the way it should, the wixey stays in the drawer. But when the rectangle comes out a trapezoid and I don't see why (if I saw why it wouldn't be a trapezoid) it's time to bring out the Auxiliary Eyeball Kit- straightedge (commercial), angle gauge, Try Square, etc., and temporarily revert to "+ or - a thou" mode.

Alas, sigh and alack, I guess I'm stuck. I really don't like those alignments while I'm doin 'em, but I take great pleasure in having dunnem.

keakap · Post by **keakap** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:26 pm

algale wrote:...concerned about using it on the Shopsmith 510/520 tables which have grooves in them because the outboard support of the woodpecker gauge might ride partly in and and out of a groove ...
Al

Aha- this looks like the perfect place for a "woodworkers'" shim, under the outboard cylinder. ["woodworkers' shim"-- coated card stock, flexible, dirt & water repellent, inexpensive, extremely consistent and accurate, come 52 to a box (plus a couple jokers) for just a few bucks].
;-)