Goldie and I need Help!

["Wild Bad Bob"]

I purchased a goldie, the seller lived about 4 hours away, he had some business 2 hours away so we met there, I was not able to run it obviously. Well today I got around to running it. I first turned by hand with the disc sander and was very hard, motor would not turn it over.
Second the quill is extended out 4 5/16" from the rubber ring to the snap ring. It will not retract, and when I loosed the set screw I can turn it about 1/4", the spindle itself turns very hard. The quill pinion shaft will not turn, soaked it with penetrating oil at both ends and no dice.
I removed the drive belt, then the idler assembly, the idler sheaves are jammed with fiber/threads from a previous belt that must have shredded. Motor runs fine now but does have a whine to it, is that normal with out anything connected to it?
I tried to remove the quill pinion shaft and it will not move laterally more then a 1/16" with pounding on it, set screw is loose. I figure the quill is still engaged in it and that maybe why.
So guys how do I alleviate/fix it???
TIA

[JPG]

First, which model Goldie? Poly-v or Gilmer(1 1/8hp or 3/4hp)?

If a Gilmer, the splines may be stuck in the main shaft.

Which set screw moves 1/4 turn? Collar or the one on top of the headstock?

'Define' whine. To me all motors whine, some louder than others.

I think a complete break down is indicated.

Step one, remove the motor etc.

Then the speed control.

IIUC the idler shaft and sheaves are already out. If not make it so.

Now you can see from the inside if the quill is jammed.

Remove the quill, and then the quill feed.

Last the upper(main) shaft and bearings.

Now you can examine all and access the need fer new parts. I think new 'main' bearings are a given.

Sounds like the control sheave may be sticking.

Do not overlook the floating sheave on the motor shaft.

Pix may be helpful.

["Wild Bad Bob"]

1st, Thanks for being here JPG, Derby Weekend!!!
It is a Dec 1961 1 1/8HP Poly V.
Both set screws turn all the way out, it is the quill body that will only turn about a 1/4".
Motor is lowered in its housing/pan.
Sped control is out.
Idler shaft and sheaves are out, but sheaves are jammed with shredded belt material.
How can I tell/see if the quill is jammed? I mean it does not move in or out, and quill pinion shaft/quill feed will not turn or able to remove it yet.
So how do I remove them?
I need to remove the quill, which at this point I cant to remove the upper spindle shaft.
Which sheaves are the "control sheaves"? Idler? or on the motor shaft?

["Wild Bad Bob"]

After posting the last one, I went back to it, removed motor completely, A O Smith 1 1/8HP put the head stock in the vertical drill press position, is that nice, had it set to eye level, all open on the bottom, look right in there.
Quill is still engaged to pinion shaft/quill feed shaft with "teeth". IMO the pinion shaft bushing is rusted to the pinion shaft, and quill feed sleeve/bushing on quill feed shaft is seized in the Head stock housing. Pinion spring housing will turn in the head stock housing. Quill body will rotate about a 1/4" so it is not seized to the pinion shaft, the spherical washer is free and not "tight" between the "ear" and quill feed sleeve.
I picked out the left over shredded threads of the belt in the idler shaft sheaves but they will not move. I am assuming the sheave on the speed control side of the shaft is the movable one, not the one on the bearing side.

[JPG]

After posting the last one, I went back to it, removed motor completely, A O Smith 1 1/8HP put the head stock in the vertical drill press position, is that nice, had it set to eye level, all open on the bottom, look right in there.
Quill is still engaged to pinion shaft/quill feed shaft with "teeth". IMO the pinion shaft bushing is rusted to the pinion shaft, and quill feed sleeve/bushing on quill feed shaft is seized in the Head stock housing. Pinion spring housing will turn in the head stock housing. Quill body will rotate about a 1/4" so it is not seized to the pinion shaft, the spherical washer is free and not "tight" between the "ear" and quill feed sleeve.
I picked out the left over shredded threads of the belt in the idler shaft sheaves but they will not move. I am assuming the sheave on the speed control side of the shaft is the movable one, not the one on the bearing side.

Correct.

The idler sheave is the one towards the idler shaft bearing.

The pair make up the idler pulley.

The outer sheave on the motor shaft is the floating sheave(spring loaded towards the fan sheave). The pair make up the motor pulley. If pulling the motor pulley sheaves apart manually, do NOT allow the floating sheave to bang against the fan sheave. The 'fan' sheave is moves air across/through the motor and out the bottom.

The quill cannot rotate much since the pinion gear will prevent that. If you have been 'banging' to rotate the quill 1/4", bang it back 1/8"(half way) and again try to move the quill in/out. Remove the quill 'lock' and quill 'stop' wingnuts, and all washers etc. from the quill feed shaft. That should eliminate any foreign influence contributing to the stuck quill. It should also allow some side to side movement of the pinion gear(assuming the retaining set screw for the quill feed has been removed - located in a projection above the quill shaft lock side and filled(maybe) with hard putty).

It is possible the quill return spring is 'unhooked'/broken/??? and causing a jam although I do not think so at this time that is likely.

Pix Pix Pix may provide clues!!!!!!!

[JPG]

I reread your previous post re seized quill shaft. I think that unlikely since the outer bearing surfaces are aluminum. The 'sleeve' on the quill lock end of the quill feed shaft is keyed to the shaft and should turn 'with' the shaft.

Not sure I understand quill spring housing turning. Is it partially removed?

Try prying the 'sleeve' out off the shaft. That should allow the lock end of the shaft to 'wobble' off center and allow(maybe) release of the jammed parts. Do not lose the woodruf key. The key may be preventing the shaft exiting the stop side by hanging up on the spherical washer.

BTW which way is the washer oriented? Flat side towards 'ears' and convex side towards 'sleeve'?









Say yes!:D

["Wild Bad Bob"]

Good Morning JPG and thanks for being here!!
To answer in your order, good thing I have a split screen computer.
I take it you are saying the sheave on the idler pulley shaft, the sheave that should move on the shaft when changing speed is on the bearing side along with the V belt grooves? It does not make sense to me, then the V belt would be moving laterally when changing speeds and out of alignment with upper shaft.
I dont have to bang the quill to rotate it the 1/4" of play, but makes sense that it is the teeth preventing it from turning more.
Quill feed shaft is striped of everything external, set screw on spring housing is removed, and the spring housing will turn in Head stock.
The problem is the quill feed shaft will not move at all, will not turn to retract/extend quill, and will not move laterally even when pounded on in either direction. I DONT what to break off the ears which the pinion shaft press against on one side by the spring housing and the other by the spherical washer and sleeve. Is heat on the Head stock were the sleeve, key way, and pinion shaft are in, on the speed control side, in order?
I would think that if the spring is jammed in the spring housing it could prevent the pinion shaft from turning, but not prevent the pinion shaft from moving laterally.

[JPG]

Good Morning JPG and thanks for being here!!
To answer in your order, good thing I have a split screen computer.
I take it you are saying the sheave on the idler pulley shaft, the sheave that should move on the shaft when changing speed is on the bearing side along with the V belt grooves? NO, the control sheave(the one towards the speed control is the movable one). As for lateral motion of the belt, a corresponding but opposite movement occurs by the floating sheave, so the belt centering indeed shifts as the sheaves move in/out and out/in. It does not make sense to me, then the V belt would be moving laterally when changing speeds and out of alignment with upper shaft.
I dont have to bang the quill to rotate it the 1/4" of play, but makes sense that it is the teeth preventing it from turning more.
Quill feed shaft is striped of everything external, set screw on spring housing is removed, and the spring housing will turn in Head stock.
The problem is the quill feed shaft will not move at all, will not turn to retract/extend quill, and will not move laterally even when pounded on in either direction. I DONT what to break off the ears which the pinion shaft press against on one side by the spring housing and the other by the spherical washer and sleeve. Is heat on the Head stock were the sleeve, key way, and pinion shaft are in, on the speed control side, in order?
I would think that if the spring is jammed in the spring housing it could prevent the pinion shaft from turning, but not prevent the pinion shaft from moving laterally.

Not yet. I think the logjam re quill FEED SHAFT removal is the sleeve and woodruff key. That should allow forceful pressure on the stop end of the shaft without placing the ears in jeopardy.

[JPG]

P.S. have you tried 'GENTLE' prying to separate the ears? Like a SMALL wedge. Secret is to limit total motion of the ears.

["Wild Bad Bob"]

Okay, coffee kick in, understand and again "missed" about which sheave on the idler shaft is the fixed one and which one moves, makes sense that the speed control side sheave is the movable one. It will not move so we need to address that too!!
The outer spring housing will rotate in the HS housing and will move in and out a bit so that is not seized in there.
I agree the sleeve on the quill lock side should not be seized to the HS housing, but if not why wont the pinion shaft turn? Even if the sleeve/bushing is frozen to the pinion shaft, and not to the HS housing it should turn. Spherical washer is in place correctly, flat side against ears, convex against bushing/sleeve and is loose on the shaft and NOT tight against the bushing and ear, just enough play to be able to rotate it.
I thought about triing to pry it out but will need to get something to pry with, but since all is aluminum in there dont really want to exert much pressure against any aluminum.