New rubber band saw tires

brianj · Post by **brianj** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:19 am

I have an older bandsaw with the cast iron table, and no dust chute; The tires were cracked, and both the upper wheel aand lower wheel had quite a bit of back and forth play. The tracking bearings didn't move well, and were cut into from the back of the blade; the single top thrust bearing was pretty rusty and the cool blocks cut all to heck, as well as the aluminium guide as well,and back and forth movement was bad.The lower thrust bearing was non existant.anyways I cleaned this bandsaw spotless and replaced all of the guide and thrust bearings. The wheels I removed the tires and cleaned the wheels until they are spotless. The needle bearings in the upper wheel I pressed out the old, and pressed in new; The lower wheel I was told I could not get the water pump shaft from SS; that I would have no choice but to kick out the over $100 buckeroos for; I ordered it, but apparently they no longer have anyone manufactering them for SS smith anymore, and they are in the process of trying to find someone to do so.
I went to a bearing place and just bought a new waterpump shaft for $20 and pressed out the old, and pressed in the new; {after putting a flat on the long end for the drive hub set screw} The only difference in the shaft is the length of the long end is about 1/8 shorter; I checked, and this poses no problem.I installed the lower wheel and discovered I still had all that play; I checked the outside diameter of both the old bearing, and the new; then checked the inside diameter of the main body "bingo" it is slightly bigger; the difference is thinner than a piece of very thin tape however the resulting runout and play when you grab the wheel and wiggle it ends up being about an 1/8 inch of play; I inspected the housing and it looks factory; showing no wear; is this a factory defect? anyways I put thin tape around the outside of the bearing and carefully tapped it in; {not ideal; damage can occur to the pump bearing nicking the rollers} seems the bearing itself has some play by design, as I still have approximately a 16th of an inch of play. I got the new rubber tires read the instructions which instruct you to place the roughest side to the wheel; {which was the outside of the tire they sent} I stretched the tire over the wheel and discover the tire isn't uniformly the exact same width for the entire circumfrence of the wheel; exposing bare metal between the raised lips at the edges; Is this normal or did I get defective tires? I was up all night working on this, and put the upper wheel with new needle bearings on temporary and there was quite a bit of play: I checked the post with my caliper and the back end is .449 and the front is .448 and the needle bearings are .517 is it madeto have all this slop and play?

algale · Post by **algale** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:06 am

Some very interesting and cleaver repairs here. Any photos? As to the tires, I can't remember what my rubber tires looked like when I replaced them but I'm pretty sure the replacement silicone tires are slightly narrower than the rim of the wheels. It has no impact in operation.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:43 am

Very interesting indeed! I have been told, by more than one "reliable source", that the shaft could not be pressed out of the lower wheel.

Yes, some pictures would be very much appreciated.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:34 am

The tires are narrower than the wheels rim.

Is it possible the tension varies around the wheel(stretched more in the 'narrows').

Rotate a dowel around the wheel between it and the tire to hopefully even the tension.

As for the upper wheel 'wobble', the tension arm etc. may also be contributing to that.

I would have used aluminum pop can to shim the bearing(about 0.003" thick).

Re the upper wheel needle bearing, .517??????

Further 'comments' will require a trip to de 'shop'.

It may be the wobble is 'typical'.

brianj · Post by **brianj** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:17 pm

Thank everyone for the replies;I tried the dowel trick with the tires; it seems to have helped; the only question that remains;should I leave the extra gap to the front of the wheels, or to the rear? I currently have the gap to the front. I hadn't thought of the soda can idea; but I am thinking of replacing the entire arm; {providing I can even get it} certainly the lower water pump shaft can be pressed out, and a new one pressed in; {provided you have a hydraulic press} The top wheel post could be as well;however I am guessing they do not sell it seperately.
The only time you would likely not be able to do so is if the aluminum was to soft, or soldered to whatever it might be.
I haven't glued the tires yet; the contact cement SS sent me came in a glass bottle with an plastic applicator; {yeah right} I can imagine this would be a nightmare with uneven clumps and many added words to the human vocab; I am considering seeing if I can find a better option, or devise a easier way.
Unfortunately for me I tend to have have a highly technical mind; not necessarily from the aspect of knowing what in the heck I am doing; but most certainly from the aspect of having the forsight of the possibility of better design; I can say bandsaws have not been my cup of tea; however this one appears to be the easiest to adjust I have ever seen; a deeper throat {say 14inch} tire brushes, and zero runnout sealed bearings for both wheels, would have been nice.
I will take and post some photo's later;{quite tired after being up all night working on this}.
I have been tackling the belt sander as well; I cannot understand how someone can spend big money on things then not take proper care of them! absolutely frustrating {I bought this used} It is a 1989 SS 510 with the bandsaw, shaper, dado blade and insert, beltsander, an odd mortiser not found in SS's service list or catalogues, the disk sander, and exstention tables.I suspect the seller played me and had the jointer, but sold it seperate; as I seen hints it was previously with it. I gave $500 for it, and so far have just over $500 more in it; I heard it run, but knew nothing about it;the sheaves were stuck, and many things either needed replaced, refurbished, or otherwise; whoever owned it never cleaned or serviced this thing, and it looked like they had it in a wet cellar {corrosion and rust everwhere} and white paint speckles from someone obviously painting a room without covering the machine. I will share my two month daily scrubbing, sanding,sanding,sanding; polishing, buffing, and every other possible hand, mind and body punishment realized from dealing with someone elses lack of proper care

brianj · Post by **brianj** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:10 pm

okay I am going to try to add some photos here

brianj · Post by **brianj** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:22 pm

more pics if I can

beatnik · Post by **beatnik** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:16 pm

In reality the tire should fit right and fill the slot completely for the wheel they were manufactured for. I guess as long as it's glued into place it shouldn't move, but I don't think that's why you glue tires. The glue is so they don't slip and the slot prevents movement side to side. Side to side movement can cause the blade to come off.

I have orange tires on an old Rockwell I installed probably ten years or more back and they fit, period.

BuckeyeDennis · Post by **BuckeyeDennis** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:54 pm

Hey brianj, your machine looks GREAT in those photos ... you're turning it into a real showpiece!

Did you take any "before" photos?

Regarding the bandsaw tires, Shopsmith bandsaws are designed so that the blade tracks to the rear of the wheel, until stopped by the auto-track bearings. If you position the tires so that they support the back edge of the blade, you really only need 5/8" of tire width in front of that.

brianj · Post by **brianj** » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:48 pm

Thank you! I seen some restorations that look better; however considering the shape this was in, and what I have to work with I guess it is okay; it is a work in progress; unfortunately I didn't take before photo's; however the tables were coroded, and the leg that I painted was severely rusted and the post on the fixed extention table was rusted badly, and pitted bad; overall I have had to give every inch of it major clean up, and repair;hopefully I will actually get to use it.
My garage is real small 10x20 uninsulated and hot; guess my next project when I am done needs to be shop improvements; insulation, and possibly a dehumidifier

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