B headstock problem

[reible]

I have a head stock from just before the switch to the "C" so as head stocks go it is not that old. I've had it a few years now and is the one I have setup as a drill press.

I got it as a standalone headstock and I didn't have any major issues with it when I checked it out. Smelled of 3in1 oil and someone had been inside as it was clean and lubed. So I put it in service as is.

The last couple of years I did notice some bearing issues with the quill so this spring I pulled the quill and put my spare in place. That was when I notice that something more then bearings were involved. (I've since ordered the bearings for the quill, and I at that point where I want to get them on the old quill and put that back in to see if I have been missing this issue or the quill is contributing to the issue.)

What I was seeing this summer more then likely happens all the time but when drill wood you just don't see it but with metal I can see the quill move when I start drilling. It is moving towards the front of the table when looked at in drill press mode.

What I was able to feel is a small radial movement side to side but more in the front to back direction. The movement is in the quill housing and case.

If I tighten the lock it feels pretty stable but of course in that state it is no longer a drill press.

When I took the quill out and looked inside I believe I can see some file marks in the housing. I don't see that on my other machines but I guess that it is possible that shopsmith might have had to do some clean up. More likely a previous owner had a sticking quill and decided that was how to fix it.... that can be caused if you tighten the quill lock without a quill in place and a few other reasons. (Might be a solution?)

I have a feeling I might be better off getting a new housing as repairs for this sort of problem are more then I want to deal with unless they are really simple and don't cost anything.

I guess it might be worth the effort of trying the lock tightening before I spend the money to replace it?

Anyone else seen this sort of problem and if so what did you do to fix it?

This as always the chance you take in not buying new.

Ed

[billmayo]

For my milling Shopsmith headstock, It took me several headstock casings to finally find one where the quill housing is a nice solid fitting in the housing. I had to tighten the headstock lock without the quill housing installed to tighten the internal casing gripping part that holds the quill housing. It took me a few tries to tighten this gap. Just be careful not to over tighten. I keep my headstock locking assembly tight enough so the quill housing will slowly retrace when let loose. I have not had any problems with play or runout with the quill when drilling, tapping or milling. I know I had to play with parts to get to this condition. I do have a few headstocks in the salvage pile that had excessive play around the quill housing that I could not remove this excessive play with any means. Shim stock does not work well around the quill housing or the headstock casing.

[reible]

Thanks Bill.

I'm going to give it a try today and see what happens. My experience is limited to the 4 machines I own and this is the only one that has this problem. Your expertise having seen many many more machines is a real asset for the forum.

Ed

[JPG]

Thanks Bill.

I'm going to give it a try today and see what happens. My experience is limited to the 4 machines I own and this is the only one that has this problem. Your expertise having seen many many more machines is a real asset for the forum.

Ed

Amen to that!

[reible]

I think this condition is not repairable on my machine. I've really cranked down, a little more each of 4 times without seeing any improvement. I will give it one more try with gloves on in case something brakes but since I have seen no improvement I'm loosing faith.

I wonder if this is something shopsmith checks on rebuilds? Or upgrades to powerpro units?

If I'm going to the trouble of changing housings I might as well do a full rebuild or start saving for another powerpro (not using this housing). Either way I'm about out of money for this year so it will have to be a spring or summer project next year.

In case anyone is keeping track I put the original quill back in, the one I had just replaced the bearings on. This made no change to the problem I have so it just related to this housing.

Ed

[skou]

This as always the chance you take in not buying new.

Ed

Ed, it is VERY difficult for me to buy new, considering my tastes in Shopsmiths.

However, I just did a check, on the ER set up in the front room. With the quill fully retracted, I couldn't detect ANY movement, up-down or left-right. With the quill fully extended, I could barely detect movement, something I'm going to estimate at .001, in either direction.

Of course, my headstock is cast iron.

steve

[billmayo]

I think this condition is not repairable on my machine. I've really cranked down, a little more each of 4 times without seeing any improvement. I will give it one more try with gloves on in case something brakes but since I have seen no improvement I'm loosing faith.

I wonder if this is something shopsmith checks on rebuilds? Or upgrades to powerpro units?

If I'm going to the trouble of changing housings I might as well do a full rebuild or start saving for another powerpro (not using this housing). Either way I'm about out of money for this year so it will have to be a spring or summer project next year.

In case anyone is keeping track I put the original quill back in, the one I had just replaced the bearings on. This made no change to the problem I have so it just related to this housing.

Ed

I did find several headstock casings that the quill housing had slop even after my best efforts to eliminate it. These headstocks went to the salvage yard. I should still have available a few "B" and "C" headstock casing kits, available for the PowerPro update too, if you have a future need. I am no longer selling complete rebuilt headstocks due to much increased shipping costs. Also some of my health problems have limited my shop time. So I have plenty of spare parts if you have a need.

[reible]

Ed, it is VERY difficult for me to buy new, considering my tastes in Shopsmiths.

However, I just did a check, on the ER set up in the front room. With the quill fully retracted, I couldn't detect ANY movement, up-down or left-right. With the quill fully extended, I could barely detect movement, something I'm going to estimate at .001, in either direction.

Of course, my headstock is cast iron.

steve

Steve the movement on this machine far exceeds the movement I am use to seeing. However by just extending the quill to the 4-1/4" inches you will not see much even on this machine. I have a drill chuck mounted and a drill extending from that. That puts you several inches out and when you reference the main table it becomes clear that something is wrong.

I wish I could get my 10er back to a working state so I could check that as well as the other machine that lives 400 miles north of me so I'd have a better perspective on the issue.

Ed

[reible]

Before playing today I figured it was best if I got some measurements first. Keep in mind the quill is being extended 4-1/4", a drill chuck is attached and a bit is in the chuck. The quill bearings are new, only have maybe 20 minutes on them and only for checking to make sure they were not getting hot and they checked out fine. The machine is running smooth and quiet, the new bearings have a nice sound to them.

I tested with no rotation so the number is only what I can reproduce by pushing and pulling on the quill itself. I have adjusted the quill so it will move up and down smoothly like I expect it to and to me it looked like the previous efforts have had no effects, this is what I'm calling my starting point.

The total travel measures .022". This is what I had guessed from the pencil dot I had made with my .5mm pentel pencil as a reference.

After two more attempts nothing had moved or at least not enough to change the results I was reading. I have no idea what the amount of travel is on a factory new machine but I'm sure it is much tighter then what I'm seeing.

So ends this experiment.

Ed

["Wild Bad Bob"]

I have a dial indicator gauge and a magnetic base for it, just got it a few weeks ago, I will check my Ers and MVs quills tomorrow if I remember and report back.