Today in the shop (10er ripping)

reible · Post by **reible** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:16 pm

Greetings fellow members.

I come today not to rip the 10er but to let you know of my recent adventure using one.

A bit of history first, a few years back I got a 10er and went as far as to restore it functionally. I then gave it to one of my brothers who lives about 400 miles north of me.

He has used the lathe function but since he had a table saw and drill press already the machine has only been set up in that mode since I had set it up and showed him the in and outs of the machine.

His table saw motor lasted only a few years (cheap saw) and replacement motors goes for about $200. So he was now interested in getting the saw function working on the shopsmith.

The blade selection was a dewalt 7-1/4" thin kerf 40 tooth blade, carbide, for about $17 local Ace hardware price. No problem finding those blades local while a slightly larger blade might be more of an issue.

The first thing he found was the blade guard by the way it mounts needs to fit the kerf of the blade..... the new blade did not cut a wide enough to make use of the guard. I verified this, not even close. Our temporary solution was to not use the guard. How are others handing this?

The next problem was that the material he had was a full 2" x 6", not the typical nominal size we are use to. The blade was not tall enough to cut it in one pass. I think an 8" blade would have done it but we didn't have one. Solution was to make the two passes by flipping the stock over. We also ripped some thinner stock which was fine with that size blade.

He had a sample piece which gave us the thickness, it took two tries to get that to a perfect fit.

He mentioned that he seemed to find the saw under powered. We ripped up a good size pile of strips and stalled the saw twice but had to slow down a lot of time. I agree with him, it is under powered for doing these operations. The solution was to slow down a lot and now he will start looking for a little bigger motor. It is a 1/2hp now so he is thinking a 3/4 or even 1 hp might be the ticket.

He is also thinking it will need some dust collection. This thin of blade makes a lot less sawdust but it is more "dusty" ie smaller chips then normal blades. Perhaps something like a box around the table to make the chips fall in a nice pile would work??

This is the brother who makes all the birdhouses, bird feeders etc.

Here are some photos for those that like them.

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Ed

BuckeyeDennis · Post by **BuckeyeDennis** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:27 pm

That's a pretty impressive pile of strips. I'm guessing that this is not another canoe build, so what are they for?

Even Steve admits that the table saw function on a 10ER is pretty weak, so I'll be very interested in the feedback. I need to clear out some space in my shop, but the 10ER is staying for sure.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:24 pm

How about using a QUALITY saw blade. Remember what Nick said.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:24 pm

How about using a QUALITY saw blade. Remember what Nick said.

rjent · Post by **rjent** » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:52 pm

I find the 10ER very adequate for certain table saw ops. Most consist of smaller (thinner) pieces, but I have done what you have done. Personally I find the saw amazing. I can see why they sold 6 figures of them in the short time they did.

Maybe the biggest mistake with these machines is trying to make them perform like modern machines. Like you said, when you slowed down it worked fine. The post war 40's and early 50's where a different era in so many ways. I can bog mine down also, but I really have to work at it.

I know I am just a newbie at this, and my opinon doesn't count for much, but I use my 10ER saw a lot and like it abilities, even in table saw mode!
Besides, I use the 10ER as an outfeed table for the Mark 7 ....

BTW: nice looking pile of worked stock I doubt a Mark V or a Mark 7 would have done it any better, maybe just faster ....

Dick

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:05 am

Often overlooked when a smaller blade is used, is the 'teeth'/sec rate of the blade. A smaller blade has fewer teeth so a 7 1/4" blade might have only 72% the amount of cuts per revolution. As such a feed rate 3/4 that of a larger blade is indicated.

Back in the day of the Model 10, a 1/2 hp motor was consider 'big'. 1/4 hp was more common. I be referring to typical 'home' workshop environment.

Also I doubt the blade was a 'rip' blade, but more likely a combo blade.

Gene Howe · Post by **Gene Howe** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:21 am

If that be so, and I don't doubt it, couldn't one just increase the speed when using a 1 1/4" blade?

JPG wrote:Often overlooked when a smaller blade is used, is the 'teeth'/sec rate of the blade. A smaller blade has fewer teeth so a 7 1/4" blade might have only 72% the amount of cuts per revolution. As such a feed rate 3/4 that of a larger blade is indicated.

Back in the day of the Model 10, a 1/2 hp motor was consider 'big'. 1/4 hp was more common. I be referring to typical 'home' workshop environment.

Also I doubt the blade was a 'rip' blade, but more likely a combo blade.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:45 am

Gene Howe wrote:If that be so, and I don't doubt it, couldn't one just increase the speed when using a 1 1/4" blade?

Yes. However his 10ER only has three speeds. 1750/2, 1750, 2x 1750 or 875, 1750, 3500. He was running at 3500.

And the power required goes up if the speed is increased.

I assume you meant 7 1/4".

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:35 am

Rule #5: "Do not run while ripping"

For many years I used an older (1950's) Craftsman 10" table-saw in the farm shop. It is still stored there but currently not in use. Most of those years I wished for just a little more motor on it than the 3/4 HP one that was on it. I kind of wanted a 1 1/2 HP but there was always too many other places for $$$ to go to replace a working motor that I could get by with if I was careful. I kept watching for a good used at least a 1 HP motor to put on it.
A number of years ago I built that saw into the left front corner of a 4' x 6' table that made it quite handy for sheet goods or long stuff. I refurbished the saw then and since it was no longer portable I switched it over to 220 volt operation. The result was amazing... I wish I had done that years earlier... It was like I had put a 1 HP motor on it. I could rip at a steady feed rate and not slow down for knots or tough grain.
I have always wished that my Shopsmith's were a simple "cord replacement and switch a couple of wires" conversion to 220 Volt operation.
I have a good 1 HP AOM dust-proof motor from a small grain bin unloading auger that I no longer use that I want to put on my 10-ER when I get back in the woodshop this winter. It is already sat up for 220V as were most of the motors I ran on the farm like grain blowers and grain cleaners etc. Far more efficient especially since most needed to be running through 20 to 50 feet of extension cord due to their being portable items and being sat up in different spots.
That 220 Volt 1 HP motor on a 10-ER should have power to waste.

I wouldn't spend for a big motor for the 10-ER but since I have this one and no other real use for it I figure why not.

.

skou · Post by **skou** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:47 am

reible wrote:Greetings fellow members.

I come today not to rip the 10er but to let you know of my recent adventure using one.

A bit of history first, a few years back I got a 10er and went as far as to restore it functionally. I then gave it to one of my brothers who lives about 400 miles north of me.

He has used the lathe function but since he had a table saw and drill press already the machine has only been set up in that mode since I had set it up and showed him the in and outs of the machine.

His table saw motor lasted only a few years (cheap saw) and replacement motors goes for about $200. So he was now interested in getting the saw function working on the shopsmith.

The blade selection was a dewalt 7-1/4" thin kerf 40 tooth blade, carbide, for about $17 local Ace hardware price. No problem finding those blades local while a slightly larger blade might be more of an issue.

The first thing he found was the blade guard by the way it mounts needs to fit the kerf of the blade..... the new blade did not cut a wide enough to make use of the guard. I verified this, not even close. Our temporary solution was to not use the guard. How are others handing this?

The next problem was that the material he had was a full 2" x 6", not the typical nominal size we are use to. The blade was not tall enough to cut it in one pass. I think an 8" blade would have done it but we didn't have one. Solution was to make the two passes by flipping the stock over. We also ripped some thinner stock which was fine with that size blade.

He had a sample piece which gave us the thickness, it took two tries to get that to a perfect fit.

He mentioned that he seemed to find the saw under powered. We ripped up a good size pile of strips and stalled the saw twice but had to slow down a lot of time. I agree with him, it is under powered for doing these operations. The solution was to slow down a lot and now he will start looking for a little bigger motor. It is a 1/2hp now so he is thinking a 3/4 or even 1 hp might be the ticket.

He is also thinking it will need some dust collection. This thin of blade makes a lot less sawdust but it is more "dusty" ie smaller chips then normal blades. Perhaps something like a box around the table to make the chips fall in a nice pile would work??

This is the brother who makes all the birdhouses, bird feeders etc.

Here are some photos for those that like them.

[ATTACH]26503[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]26504[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]26505[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]26506[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]26507[/ATTACH]

Ed

Ed, first let me say, have your brother get an 8 inch blade. Thin kerf WILL work, but the blade guard will NOT fit. A regular (1/8th inch blade will.) But, a thicker blade will give you more drag, and that 1/2 HP motor won't like that. (Of course, if you don't use that guard, you won't need the thicker blade.)

If you must, install the blade guard, using a "regular" blade. Remove it, and install a thin-kerf blade, so you have some power left. Yes, you want an 8 inch blade. Freud makes an 8 inch Diablo blade. (Was that a Freudian slip? Does someone have an Oedipus Complex.

) I've got a blade guard. It's in my "parts box." After 35 years, never used it.

Oh, while I'm on the subject, older tools required "thought." Not "OSHA" but "thought." Norm Abrams was wrong! The MOST important safety tool, was BETWEEN your ears, not hanging off of them. (Although, safety glasses are REAL handy!)

Dust control? The lower blade guard is without a doubt, the most expensive Model 10 part available. Yes, it has a vacuum port. (kinda.) I've never seen a real one.

(Oh, thanks to Buckeye Dennis, for tossing me under this bus!)

steve