New-to-me MARK 5 - use, restore, or part out?

mnmk5 · Post by **mnmk5** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:34 am

I picked up a new-to-me MARK 5 this weekend. I have read about these machines since I was a kid, but never used nor owned one.

Reading here MANY hours over the last few days I believe I have a 'greenie' that is mostly original. It is in fair shape, with noticeable surface rust and a noisy motor. It came with a jointer, aluminum sanding disk, drill chuck, a saw table, and that appears to be about all. I don't even know if it has a speed control - or did they all? I haven't gotten it unloaded from the back of my truck yet as i need help to do so.

Of specific concern to me is that fact that there appear to be no guards whatsoever. I realize that is most likely because of, and consistent with, it's age.

I have the tools and skills to restore it, and maybe even the time this winter. I don't have a lot of money into it, so that's not an issue, but I don't want to expend a lot of effort on a machine that ultimately will be unusable if it's going to throw sawdust everywhere or be unsafe to operate.

So ... do I use it 'as-is' (worst option from what I've read so far), restore and update it with guards ($$$), or part it out and move on?

algale · Post by **algale** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:46 am

Personally, I would not run any machine without at least (1) a lower guard and (2) some sort of splitter/riving knife.

I believe both lower and upper guards were available as an option for the Greenie. But based on the commentary I've read (disclaimer: I've never owned a Greenie), those guards are more finicky to set up and use than the current system and I don't think the new system will work with the Greenie.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:48 am

Well, even though I can do nothing more than state an opinion, I will. To part it out is, in my opinion, sacrilege. If you don't want to use it, sell it or give it to someone who will. These machines were meant to be used.

As far as using it without the guards, I would hesitate to do so but be aware that there are many users that do just that. Even with guards available, many do not use them.

Since this is an older machine, finding the appropriate guards may not be a simple task but they are available. Camp on eBay and you will eventually find almost anything you want.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Welcome to the forum.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:21 am

As one of 'those' who regularly used the TS without guards for over a half century, let me say that it is indeed risky behavior.

Recognizing that and treating the operation with forethought and respect is paramount to avoiding injury.

Control of the workpiece is critical. Did I mention control? You need to make sure any workpiece movement is caused by the operator, not the operation.

Not always happen that way, but that is the prime objective after the sawing.

I agree with Dusty. Sacrilege indeed. Only thing worse is cutting 10 E/R tubes.

Recognize that the TS is only one of 5+ tasks it performs.

mnmk5 · Post by **mnmk5** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:01 pm

Thanks for the responses so far!

I, too, have a real problem with scrapping out things of value - and I have always kinda wanted a ShopSmith. But I need to be practical as well. I absolutely WOULD NOT run the TS without guards - PERIOD! But I already own a cabinet saw, so I don't need that functionality from this machine.

Let me perhaps ask a few additional/different questions:

1. What operations would be considered 'Safe' with the machine running as shipped circa 195X?

A. Drill Press - seems OK to me?

B. Disk Sander - Probably OK, but messy/dusty?

C. Lathe - not needed, as I have a Vega Copy/Duplicator lathe

D. Jointer - not needed, as I have a Laguna 12" jointer

2 I see that several people have converted their machines to dedicated Drill Press setups. What are the advantages over a standard floor-mount Drill press?

3. Is the headstock sturdy enough to employ (vertically) for doing minor milling operations in wood and aluminum? It would be for my occasional creations, not any kind of production environment. I assume (yes, I know :-) that I would need/want to upgrade to dual spindle bearings to support the lateral thrust loads that could be generated by this activity? But otherwise should it work? Have any of you done this?

4. Assuming the answer to number 3 is affirmative - and since I'm pretty sure my headstock needs a 'refresh' anyway - what is the least amount of money I could expect to pay to upgrade to a 1-1/8 HP motor?

5. Other than the capacitor location, is there anything unique about the motor or could I find a 56-frame, 1725 RPM, TEFC motor that would fit? I know ShopSmith didn't manufacturer their own motors, and I have direct access to either Leeson or Marathon motors.

Sorry about all of the questions, but you guys said to ask?

<big grin>

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:16 pm

The table is not very sturdy for metal milling, but light cutting could be done. Bill Mayo uses a cast iron clone table in a Mark 5 he has converted(including additional bearings in the quill).

Most who make a dedicated drill press do so from a model 10(cast iron headstock etc.) and heavier way tubes.

IMHO a 3/4 hp motor is adequate for all BUT the ts.

Disk sanding can be be made mostly dust free with a dust collector shroud similar to a lower saw guard(off table disk mount).

Only the Model 10 motors have an external start capacitor
(the older GE motors had a capacitor and a start relay external on the dead end of the motor). The reason for the concern re capacitor location is the motor to bench clearance. The 'top' where a typical external capacitor is mounted becomes the bottom facing the bench on a '10'.

The horizontal boring function is reason enough to keep it in the stable IMHO. Once you get the mindset of how/when to utilize it you will be surprised at how often you use it.

skou · Post by **skou** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:34 pm

algale wrote:Personally, I would not run any machine without at least (1) a lower guard and (2) some sort of splitter/riving knife.

I believe both lower and upper guards were available as an option for the Greenie. But based on the commentary I've read (disclaimer: I've never owned a Greenie), those guards are more finicky to set up and use than the current system and I don't think the new system will work with the Greenie.

I can think of NUMEROUS reasons to run a Shopsmith without those guards in place, namely the 4 other functions a basic SS has. (You could use the lower guard on the disc sander, though.) Belt sander, jig/scroll saw, router, bandsaw, compressor, strip sander, flex shaft, enough?

Oh, the upper guard came with the Model 10, but (except in RARE instances) no lower guard was available.

steve

ChrisNeilan · Post by **ChrisNeilan** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:23 pm

The only time I would use a Shopsmith without the guards would be when used with a dado blade or a sled. I have an older Sears table saw with no guards and that is all I use it for. Actually quite convenient leaving it set up that way. The newer style guards for Shopsmiths are quite good in my not so humble opinion. Worth investing in them, either new from Shopsmith or on the black market (ebay)!

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:42 pm

We be discussing options for a Greenie here.

ChrisNeilan · Post by **ChrisNeilan** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:11 pm

JPG wrote:We be discussing options for a Greenie here.

Precisely. My point is set up the Greenie as a dedicated dado or whatever... He has another table saw for most of his other sawing needs?;)
Unless of course the greenie can't handle a dado?