Mark 5 fixup

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JPG
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Mark 5 fixup

Post by JPG »

Over here http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewt ... 2&start=40

a discussion has been taking place as a new member attempts to get his Mark 5 up and running

He has a broken control sheave loop, and a control sheave stuck in slow.

The belts appear good and he does not want to destroy them.

He has suggested that he may need to take take the floating sheave off the motor.

So my initial reply is:

No you do not want to take the floating sheave off. That is quite difficult enough with the belt already removed.

Since the control sheave seems to be 'stuck', the approach I would take, is to first remove the speed control. The knob has a small set screw that is a bit of a challenge to locate, then loosen. After removing the knob, there are three screws that secure the speed control to the headstock casting. One has a leaf spring attached(upper right). Remove those three screws and since the loop is disconnected from the porkchop, the speed control should now be removable.

The hole under the speed control is quite small on an "A" headstock, but it does give you access to the control sheave. Penetrating oil and gentle prying may allow the control sheave to move away from the idler sheave and possibly off the inside end of the idler shaft.

That will allow the floating sheave on the motor shaft to close, or provide slack for the belt so it can be taken off the motor pulley.

That will allow you to remove the motor pan/motor. The idler shaft can be removed towards the front of the headstock(goes IN). There is a screw that squeezes the casting around the idler shaft bearing, and a set screw that holds the eccentric to the bearing. With the screw loose, the eccentric can be rotated to slack the internal belt(Gilmer or Poly-v). The set screw can be accessed through the slot under the bearing.

Nuf fer now! ;)
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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
DMcCam
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Location: Reno, Nevada

Re: Mark 5 fixup

Post by DMcCam »

Hi JPG, I can't thank you enough for your generous help with my Mark 5. I actually removed the speed control earlier today and as suspected, the whole lot needs replacing. Like you said, there's not much of an opening on this model but it does help a lot.

I'll try the penetrating oil direction tomorrow... I would assume you try and not get any on the belts, correct? If you do, what's the best way to clean it off them.

I'm mechanically inclined but not experienced in restoring machinery.

In Gratitude,

Dave
Dave
Reno, NV
Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 290470, Born March '55, Acquired April '11
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JPG
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Re: Mark 5 fixup

Post by JPG »

Getting penetrant on the belt may be a given.

Any degreaser(dish washing detergent) should clean it up.

Make sure the penetrant is just that.

Kerosene, pbblaster, kroil, but not wd40.
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╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
DMcCam
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Re: Mark 5 fixup

Post by DMcCam »

Thank you for saving my belts JPG, I would have used WD40. I'll go get PB Blaster.

Hi Guys,
Thought it was about time to show the project ahead.
M5_01.jpg
M5_01.jpg (149.73 KiB) Viewed 4291 times
Here's the M5 as it stands this morning.
M5_02.jpg
M5_02.jpg (109.91 KiB) Viewed 4291 times
This shot shows the floating sheave spring and retaining nut. I'll need some help on the best way to remove this version.
M5_03.jpg
M5_03.jpg (142.45 KiB) Viewed 4291 times
M5_03A.jpg
M5_03A.jpg (140.27 KiB) Viewed 4291 times
Here you can see a closer look at the old repair of the drive sleeve ears. Not pretty but they appear to have worked.
M5_03B.jpg
M5_03B.jpg (212.68 KiB) Viewed 4291 times
These little bearing retainers were between the ears. Look to be original to the machine.

M5_04.jpg
M5_04.jpg (146.34 KiB) Viewed 4291 times
This shot shows why the Speed Control Handle will need replacing.
M5_05.jpg
M5_05.jpg (207.86 KiB) Viewed 4291 times
The teeth on the Speed Control Dial are pretty soft. Not sure if it needs replacing…
M5_06.jpg
M5_06.jpg (173.07 KiB) Viewed 4291 times
You'll see in these next pictures why I think the entire Speed Control unit will need to be replaced.
M5_07.jpg
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M5_08.jpg
M5_08.jpg (138.16 KiB) Viewed 4291 times
More to come. Thank you Gentlemen for your help.
Dave
Reno, NV
Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 290470, Born March '55, Acquired April '11
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beeg
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Re: Mark 5 fixup

Post by beeg »

For the speed control you might consider this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOP-MITH-MARK-V ... 1656884163
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
.
.

Bob
DMcCam
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Re: Mark 5 fixup

Post by DMcCam »

Thank you Bob, He wants $21. for his and SS sells a new one for $29 although not with his stainless teeth. Do the factory Speed Control Handles break very frequently? I'll have to think about this one.

Bad news, the control sheaves are not moving after PB Blaster. Looks like the best solution is to take out the motor. What is the best way to remove the nut without it going balistic with the spring?

All the Best,

Dave
Dave
Reno, NV
Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 290470, Born March '55, Acquired April '11
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beeg
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Re: Mark 5 fixup

Post by beeg »

replacing the motor spring. PDF
Maybe this well help?

Attachments
replacing the motor spring.PDF
(292.02 KiB) Downloaded 591 times
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
.
.

Bob
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JPG
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Re: Mark 5 fixup

Post by JPG »

DMcCam wrote:Thank you Bob, He wants $21. for his and SS sells a new one for $29 although not with his stainless teeth. Do the factory Speed Control Handles break very frequently? I'll have to think about this one.

Bad news, the control sheaves are not moving after PB Blaster. Looks like the best solution is to take out the motor. What is the best way to remove the nut without it going balistic with the spring?

All the Best,

Dave
Fergit the price difference - his will outlast the mother ships one. You will not get 'yours' back unless you request it. If not you will get the replacement almost immediately(snail mail speed both ways).

Yes the gears strip all too often. The mating gear is steel. The original gears are aluminum. That said, mine is 60 yrs old and not stripped. If you do not force the speed control knob, the gears last. FWIW I would always go with the rebuild.

Think through the procedure from Beeg, but it includes switch removal etc. Ok since you will likely need to do that anyway. The nut is indeed a left hand thread. The board with a hole is not well described, but you will figure it out. The board allows depressing/holding the spring and releasing it slowly after the nut is removed. One end slips under the casting and you press on the other(long) end. Since you have an "A" headstock, the short end dimension may need to be different. Putting that nut back on may be a challenge - just persevere!
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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shopsmithpaul
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Re: Mark 5 fixup

Post by shopsmithpaul »

Dave, if I may put in my 2 cents worth. Depending on the condition of your bearings and how far along you are you might just consider upgrading to a poly v belt and double bearing quill. That also would give you a new control sheave shaft and bearing. There would be an expense but I think it is worth it. The double bear quill adds a lot of stability. You might ask the forum what others think. I will not be offended if there is disagreement with my suggestion. Keep working with it.
510, bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, jointmatic
DMcCam
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Re: Mark 5 fixup

Post by DMcCam »

shopsmithpaul wrote:Dave, if I may put in my 2 cents worth. Depending on the condition of your bearings and how far along you are you might just consider upgrading to a poly v belt and double bearing quill. That also would give you a new control sheave shaft and bearing. There would be an expense but I think it is worth it. The double bear quill adds a lot of stability. You might ask the forum what others think. I will not be offended if there is disagreement with my suggestion. Keep working with it.
Hi Paul, I may not have an option but to upgrade. Here's a picture of my gilmer dive shaft. The bearings move very well but belt has worn a low spot in the gear with the belt frayed on the edges. Not looking good here.
M5_11.jpg
M5_11.jpg (77.77 KiB) Viewed 4125 times

The quill moves a lot inside the outer sleeve even though the bearing feels tight and smooth.

One good thing is that the motor runs very well and the idler Sheave moves freely. Is this motor original?
M5_10.jpg
M5_10.jpg (111.43 KiB) Viewed 4125 times

Inside it looks a little grungy. The belts have thrown bits to the walls. We'll see how things clean up.
M5_12.jpg
M5_12.jpg (235.59 KiB) Viewed 4125 times

Oh, I bought the refurbished Speed Control Knob from eBay! First purchase for the restore! :)
Dave
Reno, NV
Mark 5 "Greenie" SN 290470, Born March '55, Acquired April '11
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