10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

This is a forum for intermediate to advanced woodworkers. Show off your projects or share your ideas.

Moderator: admin

User avatar
jsburger
Platinum Member
Posts: 6585
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:06 pm
Location: Hooper, UT

Re: 10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

Post by jsburger »

damagi wrote:
jsburger wrote: I would like to see a picture with the shorter tubes. I thought I might have to do that.
jsburger wrote: I used the 18" pieces of bench tubes I cut off when I made my shorty. My initial feeling was that they may be a little too long given the front leg sticks out past the table a bit and would interfere with standing at the drill press. As it turns out, when I stand at the drill press I tend to stand a bit to the right and my left foot fits under the opening in the leg and my right foot sits to the right of the leg. It works quite naturally so I haven't felt a great need to disassemble the machine and shorten the way tubes.
Yeah, that was my feelings too. It wasn't horrible, but I felt like it could be better. In theory, having the two sets of legs almost touching is probably the best setup in terms of foot position. However, my concern was instability. What I have now seems to be a good compromise.
jsburger wrote: I see you are using a set of fixed table tubes with the connecting bracket for front table support. I used the main table tubes that are replaced when you do the MK 7 double tilt upgrade. The problem was that if you move the table you need three hands to adjust both tubes and tighten the lock. :confused: I ended up using a 1/4" dowel through the original attachment pin holes in the end of the tubes. Works great.
Since I have done a lot of repairs and such of older units, I had the fixed table from a 500 just lying around. Right now I am using it as-is, but have considered adding a small chunk of wood on top to prevent damage to the table itself and perhaps add leveling capability.
jsburger wrote: I don't move the headstock (yet). I installed a SS table raiser cylinder and move the table instead. The headstock is set a bit high (an inch or two) for normal drilling. Then if I use a longer bit I just move the table with the table raiser. 90% of the time I don't have to move anything. Because the headstock is reversed on the way tubes the table raiser brackets don't mount according to the instructions but the mount just fine anyway.

I also toyed with using a lead screw attached to the tie bar and the headstock casting. I think it is perfectly doable but I am not sure it is worth the effort since I almost never move the headstock.
Interesting. I had considered picking up the table raiser. I am younger and more physically fit compared to your average SS user, so the weight isn't really the issue...moreso a convenience factor.
jsburger wrote: Yes I was cleaning some 10ER tubes for a dedicated 10ER drill press for a friend. Got the 10ER for $50. There was no bench or accessories but that was all that was needed for a dedicated drill press.
That's the same setup I used a while back. The guy had left his 500 outside in the pacific northwest in a carport...ugh, that was an adventure. I like your wooden plug. I ended up using a rubber plug from NAPA that was the right size. I got one for the way tubes, one for the bench tubes. Worked great.

You had an old 500 with different sized bench tubes. That is the way they were when they first came out. I am not sure how many years they were different but my guess is it was only a few.

The wood plug works fine. I turned it from popular which is a little soft. It didn't take long to ware a groove in it and it wouldn't hold. Now I just wrap it with a couple layers of masking tape each time I use it and it works fine.

One thing I did find is that the large drum sanding mandrel from the SS drum sanding kit fits the MK V tubes perfectly and tightens right up but I was doing 10ER tubes.
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
User avatar
JPG
Platinum Member
Posts: 35600
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)

Re: 10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

Post by JPG »

In addition to the 2" pvc pipe, a 1" with endcaps will fit inside the ss tube while in the 2" pipe. Reduces the amount of evaporust needed to fill. HF is de place to get gallon size. Take a 20% off coupon. ;)

It is reusable, but eventually becomes less effective.

In addition to being non-toxic, it is bio-degradable.

As for 'disposal', leave the top off. It will eventually 'disappear'.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
User avatar
beeg
Platinum Member
Posts: 4790
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: St. Louis,Mo.

Re: 10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

Post by beeg »

OK, I've read many times here about 10ER tubes are heavier. Just how much is the weight difference?
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
.
.

Bob
User avatar
JPG
Platinum Member
Posts: 35600
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)

Re: 10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

Post by JPG »

beeg wrote:OK, I've read many times here about 10ER tubes are heavier. Just how much is the weight difference?
I ain't never weighed em!

But I can tell you they have 3/16" walls.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
User avatar
jsburger
Platinum Member
Posts: 6585
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:06 pm
Location: Hooper, UT

Re: 10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

Post by jsburger »

beeg wrote:OK, I've read many times here about 10ER tubes are heavier. Just how much is the weight difference?

As JPG said the wall thickness is 3/16" as opposed to the MK V tubes that are 1/8" thick. When you get them in your hands there is a significant difference in my opinion. At the end if the day does it really make any difference since the MK V thin tubes have been around for 60+ years? Probably not, but more is always better and I will use them every time. I have them on my full size MK 7 Power pro and my dedicated MK V drill press.

One thing to remember, the 10ER in it's later years had the thin 1/8" tubes. So if someone is selling 10ER tubes you need to ask if they are thick tubes if that is what you want.
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
User avatar
BuckeyeDennis
Platinum Member
Posts: 3815
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: 10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

jsburger wrote:
beeg wrote:OK, I've read many times here about 10ER tubes are heavier. Just how much is the weight difference?

As JPG said the wall thickness is 3/16" as opposed to the MK V tubes that are 1/8" thick. When you get them in your hands there is a significant difference in my opinion. At the end if the day does it really make any difference since the MK V thin tubes have been around for 60+ years? Probably not, but more is always better and I will use them every time. I have them on my full size MK 7 Power pro and my dedicated MK V drill press.

One thing to remember, the 10ER in it's later years had the thin 1/8" tubes. So if someone is selling 10ER tubes you need to ask if they are thick tubes if that is what you want.
I had never heard about 10ER's with 1/8" tube walls. It got me curious enough to go downstairs and measure my two 10E/R machines. The oldest one is a very early 10E with a sand-cast headstock, serial number 1750, which dates it to 1947. The first year of manufacture. Tube wall thickness measures 0.175".

My "newer" 10ER is serial number 85493, dating it to 1952. Tube wall thickness measures 0.210".

When did the thinner tubes appear?
User avatar
JPG
Platinum Member
Posts: 35600
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)

Re: 10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

Post by JPG »

BuckeyeDennis wrote:
jsburger wrote:
beeg wrote:OK, I've read many times here about 10ER tubes are heavier. Just how much is the weight difference?

As JPG said the wall thickness is 3/16" as opposed to the MK V tubes that are 1/8" thick. When you get them in your hands there is a significant difference in my opinion. At the end if the day does it really make any difference since the MK V thin tubes have been around for 60+ years? Probably not, but more is always better and I will use them every time. I have them on my full size MK 7 Power pro and my dedicated MK V drill press.

One thing to remember, the 10ER in it's later years had the thin 1/8" tubes. So if someone is selling 10ER tubes you need to ask if they are thick tubes if that is what you want.


I had never heard about 10ER's with 1/8" tube walls. It got me curious enough to go downstairs and measure my two 10E/R machines. The oldest one is a very early 10E with a sand-cast headstock, serial number 1750, which dates it to 1947. The first year of manufacture. Tube wall thickness measures 0.175".

My "newer" 10ER is serial number 85493, dating it to 1952. Tube wall thickness measures 0.210".

When did the thinner tubes appear?
Make sure you account for internal burrs when measuring. ;)
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
User avatar
BuckeyeDennis
Platinum Member
Posts: 3815
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: 10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

JPG wrote: Make sure you account for internal burrs when measuring. ;)
I just double checked. The tube that I was measuring is burr free, with what appears to be a very light cleanup boring pass on the first quarter inch or so of the I.D. The other tube does indeed have a slight burr on the I.D., but was not measured.

I de-grimed the same tube with some WD-40 and re-measured. Measuring instrument is a Mitutoyo dial caliper, which calibrates dead nuts across all dimensions of a precision 1-2-3 block. I.D. blade measurements were checked against a calibrated micrometer, and are within 0.001.

The tube O.D. measures 1.748. The I.D. measures 1.346. Wall thickness measures 0.200, using the knife edges. The knife edges don't quite reach past that cleanup bore, but it looks and feels a fuzz thicker beyond.

Perhaps the mandrel got a bit worn after making 170,000 tubes!
User avatar
JPG
Platinum Member
Posts: 35600
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)

Re: 10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

Post by JPG »

My humongous sample of 1 also measured about .2". I assumed a burr and called it 3/16". When I polished them, I used a 1 3/8" core plug for an arbor.

So 13/64? ;)
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
User avatar
BuckeyeDennis
Platinum Member
Posts: 3815
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: 10ER Way Tubes - Use them on PowerPro or dedicated drill press?

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

JPG wrote:My humongous sample of 1 also measured about .2". I assumed a burr and called it 3/16". When I polished them, I used a 1 3/8" core plug for an arbor.

So 13/64? ;)
My first guess was that the thickness tolerance just wasn't that tight. But you got me curious, and I found a detailed manufacturer's DOM spec here: http://www.dofascotube.com/images/Arcel ... MSpecs.pdf

Check out the wall-thickness tolerance chart on page 11. Standard thicknesses from this manufacturer include 0.180 and 0.203 (13/64), but not 3/16 (0.188)". Tolerance is better than +/- 0.005. So from this, it appears that perhaps my 10E has the 0.180 thickness tubes, and my 10ER has the 0.203 thickness tubes.

Now here's the interesting thing that I discovered: you can buy this tubing online in small quantities. Here's one source: http://www.stockcarsteel.com/dom-steel- ... r-mandrel/. They sell 1-3/4" O.D. x 0.188" wall for $10.09 per foot. I put two 52" tubes in my cart, and the total came to $113 with shipping. Presto, brand new 10ER tubes. But of course, you can probably find an entire 10ER at that price or less, if you're patient.

The really interesting thing to me is that you can buy the tubes in whatever length you want, and with even heavier walls .. all the way up to 0.375. Stretch 10ER lathe, anyone? :cool:
Post Reply