table alignment

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:51 pm

[quote="dusty"]Charlese]

How about using the extension table - and if necessary one of the floating tables. That way you could drill out both trunnions, while the main table is sitting on the floor.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:27 am

charlese wrote:How about using the extension table - and if necessary one of the floating tables. That way you could drill out both trunnions, while the main table is sitting on the floor.

Chuck your the man!!!! But where were you the other day? I never thought of that and that simple solution was staring me in the face. Had I done it that way I never would have had the problem of the work breaking free and smacking the stuffings out of my hand.

Which by the way is healing. My index finger still doesn't like to move a lot and there is some swelling in the main joint of my hand and that finger.
I figured I stretched the muscles, tendons or whatever. Wife now wants me to get it x-rayed since I there is swelling. She is the one that wouldn't give my any sympathy when it first happened saying, "it isn't swollen it will be okay." I figure even if something is broke, it is working nicely the pain is decreasing and what can they do other than put me in a really bothersome cast for way longer than I want with one arm.

Chuck I like your idea so much I'm going to make it a practice to use the Aux table instead of the main table for all my horizontal boring. I was never real happy using the main table as I always figured it was a recipe for messing up my table, either the alignment or the table surface.

Ed

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:46 am

charlese wrote:How about using the extension table - and if necessary one of the floating tables. That way you could drill out both trunnions, while the main table is sitting on the floor.

Sometimes the best solutions are the most obvious. I would never have thought of this. It is almost too hot today to be out in the shop but I'm going to have to go out and try this.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:39 am

Yup, Charlese, you are the man. It doesn't make for the prettiest setup and adjusting the table height is not a simple task but it can be done! What is even more important, it makes for a safe setup.

I have taken a couple pictures but I DID NOT do the necessary clamping to make this a safe task. I really don't have the right clamps for a task like this but if I needed to do this job I'd get the clamps. Just might do that anyway; I hate to know that there is a common job I can't do for want of a simple clamp.

I have two floating tables mounted but only one is necessary. In fact, if I didn't have the lift assist, I believe this could be done on just an extension table.

If I elevated the trunnion, I would be able to move the carriage closer to the table. As it is, if I get the carriage closer to the right end of the Shopsmith, the arbor touches the table top. Since this is just a trial effort to prove concept, I didn't do all of that. However, don't take shortcuts. After all, that is sorta why we are having this discussion.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:44 pm

[quote="dusty"]...I have taken a couple pictures but I DID NOT do the necessary clamping to make this a safe task. I really don't have the right clamps for a task like this but if I needed to do this job I'd get the clamps. Just might do that anyway]

Hi Dusty! It looks like you already have the clamp that would be my first choice. Try out that hand screw that I see hanging on the wall in photo P6190004.JPG. You might be able to put tow of those hand screws on to hold the trunnion. If you don't want to dent the handscrew, put a wood block above the trunnion and below the table.

I don't understand how moving the carriage to the right would cause the arbor to touch the table top.

james.miller · Post by **james.miller** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:46 pm

My 510 was built in Mar 89 and the rear trunnion mounting holes were undersized. I added a new rear trunnion to an order last year and replaced the old one. I hadn't really had any problems aligning the table but thought maybe it would be a good idea after reading this forum.

Has anyone just drilled out the right hole to help keep the table from shifting sideways during alignment? With both holes at 1/2" it could shift to the side if you accidentally loosened all four table mounting bolts, this would cause problems with zero clearance saw inserts and crosscut sleds also the Incra 5000 sled.

Just some thoughts.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:07 pm

charlese wrote:I don't understand how moving the carriage to the right would cause the arbor to touch the table top.

With the trunnion sitting flat on the table, to align the drill bit with the hole in the trunnion, the arbor touches the table. To see if this table arrangement was feasble, I just pulled the headstock away from the table (to the left).

I just went back and reread what I wrote. It's confusing; not well stated.
Actually, the carriage doesn't really impact anything except that it is there. The potential interference that I saw was between the arbor and the extension or floating table that the arbor is resting on.

If I was actually setting up to drill the trunnions, I would elevate the trunnion with something like a piece of 1/2" plywood.

Having done that, there would be clearance between the arbor and the table top.

Yes, I could probably use one of those clamps. All that I would have to do is locateclamp to the underside of the table where it would clear the ribs. I don't like to clamp on the ribs.

timster68 · Post by **timster68** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:15 pm

I've been away from this forum for a little bit - what does the smaller sized holes do to your table? Does it making aligning it impossible? Thanks.

-Tim

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:54 pm

Tim;

The two smaller holes don't make it impossible to do some adjustment; there is still some movement available. It seems that it must have been enough to achieve alignment or this problem would not have gone on for so long.

Enlarged holes facilitate more movement and therefore some ease in alignment.

If you or anyone else who might have this situation to deal with are completely satisfied with the adjustability of the main table, I would recommend that they not bother drilling out the holes.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:31 pm

I figured I needed to conclude my story on the trunnion hole enlargement.

As some of you might know I like Dusty discovered my rear trunnions holes were 3/8" instead of the 12/" holes. I bored mine out and while boring I didn't have my trunnion totally secured to the table. The bit stuck, since my left hand was holding the trunnion very tightly so when the bit stuck and piece spun it yanked my hand open, then came around and smacked my hand hard right behind the thumb. While the smack on the thumb hurt the worst I found that I apparently damage my tendon, muscles or joint on my index finger from the part being ripped from my hand. The next day that hurt far worst than the smack did. All is on the mend and each day my index finger feels a little better.

Lesson learned. From now on I use Chuck's method, put the SS horizontal boring mode and use the table to prevent the part from becoming a weapon should the bit stick. Thanks again to Chuck.

Now how did all this turn out. Well I used Dusty's method of attaching my dial indicator to the base of the tendon master. Works fantastic! Thanks Dusty!!!

With the dial indicator stuck to the tenoning jig base you have a very large very stable surface to mount the dial indicator and I believe it is far more accurate this way than having it only on a mitre bar. I was able to insure my dial indicator was stable and what I was measuring was the difference in the table parallelism and not movement in the measuring device.

That said I was able to align my table to within .001" of parallel. Then using the same setup adjusted my fence. I believe my fence to be perfect.

Long story short. After having my trunnion holes undersized for nearly 15 years and living with it I wouldn't advise boring them if you can adjust your table to acceptable tolerances. I did it because I wanted to see if there was a difference and frankly I couldn't find one.

The pluses. I think I learned a safer way to bore metal in the future.
And I'm totally sold on using the base of the SS tendoning jig as a base for my dial indicator. To me those two points were worth the effort.

Oh yes my thanks to Nick for his $20 bill trick on the trunnion clearance. I believe that is a day to night difference in my how my table tilts. Plus it did eliminate most of the uneveness I was seeing my my main table. Now my diagonal check of the table with a straight edge shows an almost perfect and uniform flat surface. Before there was a dip that actually threw off the vertical measurement of my table to blade with a square.
Incidentally I had done Nick suggesttion of using a $20 before when he first posted it and I don't know if I did it wrong or if the table is springing back into shape. But after doing it this time there is even more improvement in the flatness of the main table and ease of tilting it.

Many thanks to Nick, Dusty and Chuck for all you ideas, suggestion and information
Ed
Edit to change tendon to tenon so no one else picks on my like Doc :-)