Customer Service Rant

[ERLover]

Tom it is not in the email add that I skim read, but I did not add to my cart and it might show up there, I know, I think, they had a free shipping thing last week, but tis the season, and I get so much wood worker sites sales and free shipping on some, depending on how much you buy, I cant remember all. I am in a total state of sales flux!!!!

[jsburger]

Good point/question Dusty, maybe a local HW store item.
Not to hijack, just got my sale email on the belt sander from the mother ship, and a light came on, 400$+ for a belt sander with no motor or stand? I know the stuff is quality and low demand/runs, so manufacturing cost is a bit higher, and to keep such a specific type company solvent, mark up has to be higher, but am I out of line to question that pricing? Most likely answered most of my own questions.

A few things come to mind. First, I have not checked prices from other manufactures for stand alone belt sanders. However most sanding stations come with a disk sander and a belt sander. Those bench top models are right around $400 or a little less for a reasonably good quality one. The disk is usually 10" or more typically 8".

Your SS already came with a 12" disk sander with a table that is larger than almost any stand alone 12" disk sander. The SS belt sander and the 12" disk sander don't need a stand alone motor or a separate stand. They already have them.

Oh, lets add on product support and parts availability. To me it is a no brainer.

[ERLover]

John, I know we dont have any issues, and are on the same page.You made some good points, and without going to HF sight and I am sure a 4x48"belt sander, only has an 8"disk, usually it goes in a combo, 3x36 has a 6"disc, 4x48, has an 8" disc, I would not give up my SS 12" or my SS conical disc. But still John, in my value system, and all those points I made, 250$ ish would be about right, even 300$ ish would be acceptable. Not to be argumentative, but again it is still SS.
I already paid for the base SS and disc so it is just an attachment, no motor or stand.

[stevespix]

Update to my rant! When I spoke with shopsmith on the phone I asked to be called back by a supervisor . Yesterday I was called back by a supervisor who also happened to be the Owner of Shopsmith. We had a very nice conversation and he took care of the problem and the part is on the way....Problem Solved!!! My faith is restored in the company , so many thanks and Best Wishes for the Holidays! STEVE

[rjent]

John, I know we dont have any issues, and are on the same page.You made some good points, and without going to HF sight and I am sure a 4x48"belt sander, only has an 8"disk, usually it goes in a combo, 3x36 has a 6"disc, 4x48, has an 8" disc, I would not give up my SS 12" or my SS conical disc. But still John, in my value system, and all those points I made, 250$ ish would be about right, even 300$ ish would be acceptable. Not to be argumentative, but again it is still SS.
I already paid for the base SS and disc so it is just an attachment, no motor or stand.

I have one question for you, and I am not calling you out LOL, but how many belt sanders from other companies are still running after 10, 20, 30 , 40, or even 50 years. I like the idea that when I buy a Shopsmith anything, I KNOW it will last. They have proven this with their products and the new belt sander will be practically the exact same one that was purchased in the 60's. I think it is well worth the extra money to know that when you buy SS it will not only last, but be supported.

I for one, am tired of the planned obsolescence of modern society, it is refreshing (albeit more expensive) to see the same quality being made as it was decades ago.

JMHO

[dusty]

John, I know we dont have any issues, and are on the same page.You made some good points, and without going to HF sight and I am sure a 4x48"belt sander, only has an 8"disk, usually it goes in a combo, 3x36 has a 6"disc, 4x48, has an 8" disc, I would not give up my SS 12" or my SS conical disc. But still John, in my value system, and all those points I made, 250$ ish would be about right, even 300$ ish would be acceptable. Not to be argumentative, but again it is still SS.
I already paid for the base SS and disc so it is just an attachment, no motor or stand.

I have one question for you, and I am not calling you out LOL, but how many belt sanders from other companies are still running after 10, 20, 30 , 40, or even 50 years. I like the idea that when I buy a Shopsmith anything, I KNOW it will last. They have proven this with their products and the new belt sander will be practically the exact same one that was purchased in the 60's. I think it is well worth the extra money to know that when you buy SS it will not only last, but be supported.

I for one, am tired of the planned obsolescence of modern society, it is refreshing (albeit more expensive) to see the same quality being made as it was decades ago.

JMHO

Let us just agree that "past performance" has been exemplary. The 'factory' that built (assembled) those old faithful, quality machines is not the same factory that is building them today. There have been major changes in the factory process over the last few years. Many of those changes were (and maybe still are) being driven by the economy. Reduce the cost of manufacturing or close the doors were (for a time) the options. The cost of manufacturing was reduced and the doors are still open (thankfully) but at what cost.

Only time will tell.

[rjent]

John, I know we dont have any issues, and are on the same page.You made some good points, and without going to HF sight and I am sure a 4x48"belt sander, only has an 8"disk, usually it goes in a combo, 3x36 has a 6"disc, 4x48, has an 8" disc, I would not give up my SS 12" or my SS conical disc. But still John, in my value system, and all those points I made, 250$ ish would be about right, even 300$ ish would be acceptable. Not to be argumentative, but again it is still SS.
I already paid for the base SS and disc so it is just an attachment, no motor or stand.

I have one question for you, and I am not calling you out LOL, but how many belt sanders from other companies are still running after 10, 20, 30 , 40, or even 50 years. I like the idea that when I buy a Shopsmith anything, I KNOW it will last. They have proven this with their products and the new belt sander will be practically the exact same one that was purchased in the 60's. I think it is well worth the extra money to know that when you buy SS it will not only last, but be supported.

I for one, am tired of the planned obsolescence of modern society, it is refreshing (albeit more expensive) to see the same quality being made as it was decades ago.

JMHO

Let us just agree that "past performance" has been exemplary. The 'factory' that built (assembled) those old faithful, quality machines is not the same factory that is building them today. There have been major changes in the factory process over the last few years. Many of those changes were (and maybe still are) being driven by the economy. Reduce the cost of manufacturing or close the doors were (for a time) the options. The cost of manufacturing was reduced and the doors are still open (thankfully) but at what cost.

Only time will tell.

Like what?

As I compare the Mark 7 I purchased new about 18 months ago to the Mark V I purchased made in '83, all I see are improvements, but both are first class machines. Don't get me wrong, I understand the "change" coming over all industries, especially manufacturing here in the USA, but with Shopsmith, so far, I just don't see it. If there is something I am missing, enlighten me, but I don't see any change except better .....

As always JMHO

[JPG]

A bit 'off' topic,but relevant never the less. I attended a 'quality assurance' seminar put on by QA folks(QC to an older generation) and the subject of Sears tools was used as an 'example'.

"Sears has never sold a top quality product" was a premise presented. They examine a product to determine where it can be made more cheaply. The resulting design is less expensive (inferior IMHO) to manufacture than the original, but since it can then be made with less $, the 'result' is more 'value'.


BS IMHO!

Sure cast aluminum is 'less expensive' than cast iron. Die cast is easier to dimensionally control than sand cast. (ignore the weight issue)

An unfair comparison, yes. Both have their individual strengths/weaknesses, but long term reliability is IMHO the key attribute. Cast iron being less ductile cracks. Cast aluminum being more ductile deforms. Pick yer poison.

Last and definitely not least, I admire what SS INC.(RLF...) has accomplished in that changes have been to improve function/quality rather than simply reduce $. Time will tell, but I for one prefer the past/current practices by the mothership(s).

End Rant!

[ERLover]

I am sure all companies look at there client base, and have a price point for a product in mind, and have it build around that price point and profit margin, good or bad.
A friend of mine has a Market Research business, done all the time, about 15 years ago Wally Land wanted a 100$ bread maker for xmas time, West Bend company could not do it, but for $109.99 with a coffee maker included they could.

[sawmill]

This may be a little off topic but it pertains to the tool age and cast veris aluminum A couple of years ago I was given a Rockwell contracters table saw. The owner had taken it apart and parts were in a pail. This thing has a huge cast iron top on it. I was expecting to have to shim it to alin it up. I was very surprized to find the cast top had been percision ground with no shims needed to aline it. I am guessing this saw was made in the early 50's. I bought some new thing with the aluminum tables and had to shim them a lot to get them to line up. I have never had this problem with anything from Shopsmith