Hello Everyone, I'm new to the forum but have had my Shopsmith for awhile. I have a couple of questions regarding the DC 3300 and the SS grinding wheel, if some of the experts here wouldn't mind sharing their knowledge.
My DC3300 is somewhat less powerful than I had hoped for. The filter and fan (blower I guess it might be called) are clean as are the hoses. So I'm wondering if the DC3300 is typically known for it's low suction or is there a newer fan or motor that might increase it's power to pull in the sawdust?
I need a grinding wheel to sharpen general items such as mower blades, screwdrivers, standard chisels, etc and have been considering a grinding wheel from lowes or home depot, but would like to hear your expert opinions regarding the SS model. From the SS website, I found the grinding wheel guard (http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... lguard.htm) which I assume is the attachment to the quill. Then I would need to purchase at least one of the wheels and also a special arbor? All totaling about $120 (and that only includes one wheel)? Seems a pretty heafty price knowing I will have to change it out every time I'm in the middle of a project or install it when I just need to grind something. Do most of you use the SS for grinding/sharpening or have you purchased another stand alone model (and if so what might you suggest?). I don't use my lathe, so those special chisels don't need to be kept sharp, just general sharpening and cleaning up of other items sometimes.
Any help, guidance, or advice would be greatly appreciated!
Help with DC3300 and SS Grinding Wheel
Moderator: admin
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weelildaddy
Goodmorning Madmac and welcome to the forum
I don't use the SS wheel or attachment but did want to share my experiences when grinding metal around the SS. I do a lot of small item turnings such as pens and boxes and use a seperate lathe. I have in the past used the sanding disk and more recently the strip sander for sharpening which can put a shaving edge on tools. PLEASE, if you grind or sharpen anything around the SS, throw an old blanket or cover the way tubes with something and when finished, be sure and wipe them down. Small metallic particles have a sneeky way of working themselves beteen the tubes and headstock and tend to make it very difficult to glide the headstock over the tubes. It took me forever to remove them just because I ignored SS's warnings to cover the tubes.
If you do much grinding, I personally believe you will be more satisfied with a stand alone slow speed or VS unit and either some shop built sharpening jigs or comercial products such as Wolverine (just an example). For the sharpening iimpared such as myself, there are some wonderful gadgets out there. I'm sure other members of this forum can provide you with a smorgasbord of opinions and ideas for there are several thousand years of accumulated expereince and people genuinely willing to share their experience with you.
One advantage to the SS attachment I can see however is the ultra slow speed you can attain with a good SC wheel which will make it almost impossible to burn or distemper a quality tool.
Happy Grinding
Arno
I don't use the SS wheel or attachment but did want to share my experiences when grinding metal around the SS. I do a lot of small item turnings such as pens and boxes and use a seperate lathe. I have in the past used the sanding disk and more recently the strip sander for sharpening which can put a shaving edge on tools. PLEASE, if you grind or sharpen anything around the SS, throw an old blanket or cover the way tubes with something and when finished, be sure and wipe them down. Small metallic particles have a sneeky way of working themselves beteen the tubes and headstock and tend to make it very difficult to glide the headstock over the tubes. It took me forever to remove them just because I ignored SS's warnings to cover the tubes.
If you do much grinding, I personally believe you will be more satisfied with a stand alone slow speed or VS unit and either some shop built sharpening jigs or comercial products such as Wolverine (just an example). For the sharpening iimpared such as myself, there are some wonderful gadgets out there. I'm sure other members of this forum can provide you with a smorgasbord of opinions and ideas for there are several thousand years of accumulated expereince and people genuinely willing to share their experience with you.
One advantage to the SS attachment I can see however is the ultra slow speed you can attain with a good SC wheel which will make it almost impossible to burn or distemper a quality tool.
Happy Grinding
Arno
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sandyj
- Gold Member
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:03 pm
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand
- Contact:
Hi there from New Zealand.
I'll put in my 2 cents worth that works for me...
standard operation for getting a turning chisel:-
Grind - shape / profile
Sharpen
Hone
It takes a wee while to master this but worth the effort
I have 2 grinders that are not shopsmith items. but they are set up in such a way that I can sharpen my chisels for wood turning. They are mounted on a lazy susan base so I can swivel to the next step and the whole unit takes up about 2 foot round.
I use a version of the scary sharp system for plane blades and 'straight' chisels.
My two grinders are both 6 inch cheapies but one is a wet wheel combo unit.
They are set up:- 1. wet wheel then 80 grit std grinding wheel; 2 & 3, 100 and 120 ali oxide (white) wheels.
When I need to put a profile on my turning chisels I start with the dry side of the wet and dry combo unit (80grit) and Grind the profile I want to use ( I use an NZ true grind system which works for me). When I am satisfied that the profile is okay I move the the 100 grit ali oxide (white stone) and smooth the face using the same jig (true grind), then on to the 120 ali oxide and repeat, when done I move over to the wet stone and finish off by hand - you can here the "shhhh sound" when you get the correct angle - now - you should have a very nice "bevel grind". finish off by honing the edge with a diamond lap tool - just a few - may be 20 or so LIGHT strokes.
Now all said and done I use the same jig far all three (dry) operations. But before I start I true my wheels to the same diameter with a diamond dresser - this I find better than a star wheel for same purpose.
After several years of this operations I find I can get away without using any jigs as I can get the angles by hand/eye but this takes practice and you will ruin some tools initially but that would be the way to go...practice practice and more practice.
All up the whole shooting match would have cost me about 200 for machinery and 50 for accessories then 2 years of practice.
Now when I turn I get a brilliant finish "off the chisel" that needs very little sanding - if any.
Watch your edge and don't let it get 'blue' (hot) have a bowl of water handy & quench often.
There is a lot more to this but initially this should get you started.
Regards
Sandy in New Zealand
I'll put in my 2 cents worth that works for me...
standard operation for getting a turning chisel:-
Grind - shape / profile
Sharpen
Hone
It takes a wee while to master this but worth the effort
I have 2 grinders that are not shopsmith items. but they are set up in such a way that I can sharpen my chisels for wood turning. They are mounted on a lazy susan base so I can swivel to the next step and the whole unit takes up about 2 foot round.
I use a version of the scary sharp system for plane blades and 'straight' chisels.
My two grinders are both 6 inch cheapies but one is a wet wheel combo unit.
They are set up:- 1. wet wheel then 80 grit std grinding wheel; 2 & 3, 100 and 120 ali oxide (white) wheels.
When I need to put a profile on my turning chisels I start with the dry side of the wet and dry combo unit (80grit) and Grind the profile I want to use ( I use an NZ true grind system which works for me). When I am satisfied that the profile is okay I move the the 100 grit ali oxide (white stone) and smooth the face using the same jig (true grind), then on to the 120 ali oxide and repeat, when done I move over to the wet stone and finish off by hand - you can here the "shhhh sound" when you get the correct angle - now - you should have a very nice "bevel grind". finish off by honing the edge with a diamond lap tool - just a few - may be 20 or so LIGHT strokes.
Now all said and done I use the same jig far all three (dry) operations. But before I start I true my wheels to the same diameter with a diamond dresser - this I find better than a star wheel for same purpose.
After several years of this operations I find I can get away without using any jigs as I can get the angles by hand/eye but this takes practice and you will ruin some tools initially but that would be the way to go...practice practice and more practice.
All up the whole shooting match would have cost me about 200 for machinery and 50 for accessories then 2 years of practice.
Now when I turn I get a brilliant finish "off the chisel" that needs very little sanding - if any.
Watch your edge and don't let it get 'blue' (hot) have a bowl of water handy & quench often.
There is a lot more to this but initially this should get you started.
Regards
Sandy in New Zealand
1960 SS500, Magna Jointer & Dado. Hailing from New Zealand
Thanks Weelildady and SandyJ. Even though I'm not asking for tips on sharpening turning chisels, I do apprecaite both your comments.
Havent't heard replies about my DC 3300 question and any more input on using a stand alone grinder or looking for the SS wheel would be helpfull if someone doesn't mind sharing their expereince and knowledge.
Thanks again!
Havent't heard replies about my DC 3300 question and any more input on using a stand alone grinder or looking for the SS wheel would be helpfull if someone doesn't mind sharing their expereince and knowledge.
Thanks again!
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Ed in Tampa
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 5834
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:45 am
- Location: North Tampa Bay area Florida
Madmac
I don't use the grinding wheel as such even though I have a standalone stored in the bottom of my cabinet.
I use the SS and Sanding disks. I sharpen every thing with it. Lawnmower blades, edger blades, hedge clipper blades, pruners, chisels, knives, hand plane blades, and etc.
I also have ground things to length, ground bevels, ground down welds, pointed steel rods, retrued faces and etc.
I find the SS and sanding disks to be one of the most used things in my shop. I'm always sanding, grinding, shaping something on it.
Remember I do have a standalone grinder but I haven't used it in probably 15years, the SS does everything I need to do.
As for your DC3300 it is not a vaccum it is a dust collector. There is a difference. Dust collectors move high volumes of air, vaccums create suction. A shop vac will suck a 1/2 inch bolt off the floor however the DC3300 will not and even if it did the bolt would probably ruin the fan.
Dust collectors will collect all the dust coming from a plane where a shopvac may be overwhelmed.
If you want to see a difference take both into a room where your sanding dry wall. First turn on the shopvac, you will notice it will pick up anything that will fit in the hose but after time the room will be a cloud of dust.
Now use the DC3300, it won't pick up all the scraps on the floor (though it does a fair job) but if you let it run you will notice the room never fills up with a dust cloud.
Great lesson I learned when I redid the master bath. Wife threatened my life if I got drywall dust all through the house. Brought in the DC3300 opened the ports and let her run. After I finished drywalling and sanding I us it to clean up. Yes there were pieces a shop vac would have gotten that I had to sweep up but I didn't get any dust in the rest of the house.
And my wife let me live!;)
Ed
I don't use the grinding wheel as such even though I have a standalone stored in the bottom of my cabinet.
I use the SS and Sanding disks. I sharpen every thing with it. Lawnmower blades, edger blades, hedge clipper blades, pruners, chisels, knives, hand plane blades, and etc.
I also have ground things to length, ground bevels, ground down welds, pointed steel rods, retrued faces and etc.
I find the SS and sanding disks to be one of the most used things in my shop. I'm always sanding, grinding, shaping something on it.
Remember I do have a standalone grinder but I haven't used it in probably 15years, the SS does everything I need to do.
As for your DC3300 it is not a vaccum it is a dust collector. There is a difference. Dust collectors move high volumes of air, vaccums create suction. A shop vac will suck a 1/2 inch bolt off the floor however the DC3300 will not and even if it did the bolt would probably ruin the fan.
Dust collectors will collect all the dust coming from a plane where a shopvac may be overwhelmed.
If you want to see a difference take both into a room where your sanding dry wall. First turn on the shopvac, you will notice it will pick up anything that will fit in the hose but after time the room will be a cloud of dust.
Now use the DC3300, it won't pick up all the scraps on the floor (though it does a fair job) but if you let it run you will notice the room never fills up with a dust cloud.
Great lesson I learned when I redid the master bath. Wife threatened my life if I got drywall dust all through the house. Brought in the DC3300 opened the ports and let her run. After I finished drywalling and sanding I us it to clean up. Yes there were pieces a shop vac would have gotten that I had to sweep up but I didn't get any dust in the rest of the house.
And my wife let me live!;)
Ed
The grit depends upon the reason your sharpening the item. If it's in bad shape, start with 80 grit, then move up to finer grits. Use the SLOW speed, to help prevent heat build up.
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
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Bob
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Bob
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Ed in Tampa
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 5834
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:45 am
- Location: North Tampa Bay area Florida
MadMac
Living in Florida I sharpen my mower blades about every 5 hours of cutting. Sand and this stuff they call grass (really northern crab grass:eek: ) takes the edge right off. I usually just use the highest grit aluminum oxide sanding disk SS sells.
I cover my way tubes to make sure iron dust doesn't fall on them and begin to rust and I also have some 1/4" ply sheets that I lay on my main table and aux table to protect them when I have the steel mower blades.
I use both sides of the my head stock. By that I mean I mount the sanding disk on right side of the head stock and sharpen the blade with the cutting edge down. Then I move the sanding disk to the left side of the headstock and lightly sharpen and balance the back side of the blade again cutting edge down.
Once I hit something with the blade and I had a fair nick in it. I then had to use the coarses grit and moved up in grit as the nick was ground down.
I balance my blades by putting them on a metal dowel that is suspended beteeen the jaws of my vice. I carefully grind the blade until the blade balances out.
I use the slowest speed and trade ends of the blade often so it doesn't get too hot. I hold the blade which is why I have the cutting edge pointing down. That way there is no way it can catch on the disk. I try to move the blade in and out on the disk again to help keep things cool. Once I get to where the blade is almost sharp I then swing the blade around and let the blade rest on the table to just slide it back and forth making a highly polished surface on the blade. Again I have 1/4" ply on the table so there is no danger of the blade scratching the table or anything.
Used this method since 1984 and it works everytime!
Ed
Living in Florida I sharpen my mower blades about every 5 hours of cutting. Sand and this stuff they call grass (really northern crab grass:eek: ) takes the edge right off. I usually just use the highest grit aluminum oxide sanding disk SS sells.
I cover my way tubes to make sure iron dust doesn't fall on them and begin to rust and I also have some 1/4" ply sheets that I lay on my main table and aux table to protect them when I have the steel mower blades.
I use both sides of the my head stock. By that I mean I mount the sanding disk on right side of the head stock and sharpen the blade with the cutting edge down. Then I move the sanding disk to the left side of the headstock and lightly sharpen and balance the back side of the blade again cutting edge down.
Once I hit something with the blade and I had a fair nick in it. I then had to use the coarses grit and moved up in grit as the nick was ground down.
I balance my blades by putting them on a metal dowel that is suspended beteeen the jaws of my vice. I carefully grind the blade until the blade balances out.
I use the slowest speed and trade ends of the blade often so it doesn't get too hot. I hold the blade which is why I have the cutting edge pointing down. That way there is no way it can catch on the disk. I try to move the blade in and out on the disk again to help keep things cool. Once I get to where the blade is almost sharp I then swing the blade around and let the blade rest on the table to just slide it back and forth making a highly polished surface on the blade. Again I have 1/4" ply on the table so there is no danger of the blade scratching the table or anything.
Used this method since 1984 and it works everytime!
Ed
Let's first take on the DC 3300 questions. The 3300 works fine for the SS tools in my shop. I normally close two of the holes in the manifold and connect the other one to a dust making machine. How does your floor vacuuming work? This should work wonderfully well when using only one of the manifold ports. Yes, the 3300 has a fan rather than a blower. The only problem with this is - you can break a fan blade if you suck up a larger piece of wood. Also remember it is CFM that moves sawdust - not necessarily the Static suction.madmac wrote:... I have a couple of questions regarding the DC 3300 and the SS grinding wheel, if some of the experts here wouldn't mind sharing their knowledge.
My DC3300 is somewhat less powerful than I had hoped for. The filter and fan (blower I guess it might be called) are clean as are the hoses. So I'm wondering if the DC3300 is typically known for it's low suction or is there a newer fan or motor that might increase it's power to pull in the sawdust?
I need a grinding wheel to sharpen general items such as mower blades, screwdrivers, standard chisels, etc and have been considering a grinding wheel from lowes or home depot, but would like to hear your expert opinions regarding the SS model. From the SS website, I found the grinding wheel guard (http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... lguard.htm) which I assume is the attachment to the quill. Then I would need to purchase at least one of the wheels and also a special arbor? All totaling about $120 (and that only includes one wheel)? Seems a pretty heafty price knowing I will have to change it out every time I'm in the middle of a project or install it when I just need to grind something. Do most of you use the SS for grinding/sharpening or have you purchased another stand alone model (and if so what might you suggest?). I don't use my lathe, so those special chisels don't need to be kept sharp, just general sharpening and cleaning up of other items sometimes.
Any help, guidance, or advice would be greatly appreciated!
About the grinding wheel. I have and use this tool. There are two features I like about it more than others. 1) It's slow speed 2) It is reversible! By this I mean you can rotate the guard and work from the back of the SS. In this manner the wheel rotates upward instead of downward. The feature about it that need improvement in my shop is the tool rest. The tool rest that comes with it is small and has a slight depression in the center. An overlay can be made to attach to this rest, but I just haven't got around to that yet.
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
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woodburner
- Gold Member
- Posts: 498
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:35 am
- Location: Visalia, CA
- Contact:
Compared to most dust collectors, the SS is not that strong and they do not offer any motor upgrades for it. It is generally made for single machine use and not for an entire shop dust collection system. Also, as for metal grinding or cutting, do not use the dust collector to vaccuum up the metal powder left from this kind of work, it is NOT made for that.
While grinding metal on a Shopsmith, make sure you cover the way tubes and clean up all the metal powder left behind when you're finished. Do not let any metal get into the headstock because it can get into the motor windings and burn out your motor. I have always avoided grinding metal on my Shopsmith just for this reason.
For sharpening edges on my chisels and tools, I have a variable speed 8" Delta grinder. It costs just a little more than the SS grinding wheel, and has two wheels, not just one. I use it for mostly sharpening my lathe chisels. I use waterstones and diamond stones to put an edge on my standard wood chisels. For my large tools like lawn mower blades, I use an attachment on my Dremel tool so I do not have to remove the blades from my lawn mowers, and it works great.
While grinding metal on a Shopsmith, make sure you cover the way tubes and clean up all the metal powder left behind when you're finished. Do not let any metal get into the headstock because it can get into the motor windings and burn out your motor. I have always avoided grinding metal on my Shopsmith just for this reason.
For sharpening edges on my chisels and tools, I have a variable speed 8" Delta grinder. It costs just a little more than the SS grinding wheel, and has two wheels, not just one. I use it for mostly sharpening my lathe chisels. I use waterstones and diamond stones to put an edge on my standard wood chisels. For my large tools like lawn mower blades, I use an attachment on my Dremel tool so I do not have to remove the blades from my lawn mowers, and it works great.
Sawdust & Shavings,
Woodburner:o
Woodburner:o