Double Tilt

[dusty]

I just ordered the double tilt upgrade kit. While doing so, I noticed this comment in the online catalog. Thought it interesting since the forum recently hosted a discussion about 1 7/8" tubes.

From the Online Catalog:

Note: Older Mark V Model 500 machines (produced before 1972) that have been upgraded to the Model 510 or 520 table system will require two new 1-3/4" diameter bench tubes (504163). The old 1-7/8" diameter bench tubes will not fit in the new base castings.

Maybe everyone else knew this but apparently the 1 7/8" tubes were phased out in 1972.

[algale]

Dusty,

That's great news because if you are ordering the double tilt upgrade I take it that means you are cleared to make sawdust!

I hope that once you install this upgrade and go through your alignment procedures, you will let us know whether this upgrade allows the extension table to be swapped from end-to-end while maintaining alignment, as reible reported, if I recall correctly.

Al

[dusty]

Dusty,

That's great news because if you are ordering the double tilt upgrade I take it that means you are cleared to make sawdust!

I hope that once you install this upgrade and go through your alignment procedures, you will let us know whether this upgrade allows the extension table to be swapped from end-to-end while maintaining alignment, as reible reported, if I recall correctly.

Al

I have not yet been cleared by either the doctor or my wife but I am getting there. Ordering the double tilt at this time is anticipatory. I am feeling good and have spent some short stints in the shop. I swept all the dust and dirt out and put a few tools back where they belong. The work bench top is once again cleared. The jointer table has been cleaned and waxed and the blades have been sharpened and adjusted. I moved the router table from the Crafters Station to one end of the Mark V where I hope it resides for the future.

Yup, I am once again on the move. Slowly but on the move.

Yes, I will let you know how the alignment works out. I expect the extension table swap will occur with no difficulty. As a pretest, before ordering the double tilt, I made my Mark V into a no-tilt by changing out a headrest for a base arm assembly. The alignment, in that configuration, went very smoothly but end for end swaps of extension tables was NOT spot on. The tables were more closely aligned than before but not perfect.

Yes, it feels good to be back in the shop even with limitations.

[jsburger]

Dusty,

That's great news because if you are ordering the double tilt upgrade I take it that means you are cleared to make sawdust!

I hope that once you install this upgrade and go through your alignment procedures, you will let us know whether this upgrade allows the extension table to be swapped from end-to-end while maintaining alignment, as reible reported, if I recall correctly.

Al

I have not yet been cleared by either the doctor or my wife but I am getting there. Ordering the double tilt at this time is anticipatory. I am feeling good and have spent some short stints in the shop. I swept all the dust and dirt out and put a few tools back where they belong. The work bench top is once again cleared. The jointer table has been cleaned and waxed and the blades have been sharpened and adjusted. I moved the router table from the Crafters Station to one end of the Mark V where I hope it resides for the future.

Yup, I am once again on the move. Slowly but on the move.

Yes, I will let you know how the alignment works out. I expect the extension table swap will occur with no difficulty. As a pretest, before ordering the double tilt, I made my Mark V into a no-tilt by changing out a headrest for a base arm assembly. The alignment, in that configuration, went very smoothly but end for end swaps of extension tables was NOT spot on. The tables were more closely aligned than before but not perfect.

Yes, it feels good to be back in the shop even with limitations.

Do you not remember the very long thread where we had this very same discussion? My double tilt did not allow alignment from end to end any better than single tilt. Everyone assumed because the end castings are the same that it would eliminate the end to end errors. Not so as I think we proved. It certainly did not on my double tilt upgrade. What did Ed report?

Looking forward to your results. And yes it is great that you can get back in the shop. Keep on keeping on.

[JPG]

A key 'adjustment' will be to make sure the way tubes and bench tubes are parallel. Specifically the tubes are not 'twisted'(either set).

Get new batteries for the laser.

[jsburger]

A key 'adjustment' will be to make sure the way tubes and bench tubes are parallel. Specifically the tubes are not 'twisted'(either set).

Get new batteries for the laser.

Again good luck.

[JPG]

A key 'adjustment' will be to make sure the way tubes and bench tubes are parallel. Specifically the tubes are not 'twisted'(either set).

Get new batteries for the laser.

Again good luck.

Yes alignment in two planes must coincide.

[dusty]

Dusty,

That's great news because if you are ordering the double tilt upgrade I take it that means you are cleared to make sawdust!

I hope that once you install this upgrade and go through your alignment procedures, you will let us know whether this upgrade allows the extension table to be swapped from end-to-end while maintaining alignment, as reible reported, if I recall correctly.

Al

I have not yet been cleared by either the doctor or my wife but I am getting there. Ordering the double tilt at this time is anticipatory. I am feeling good and have spent some short stints in the shop. I swept all the dust and dirt out and put a few tools back where they belong. The work bench top is once again cleared. The jointer table has been cleaned and waxed and the blades have been sharpened and adjusted. I moved the router table from the Crafters Station to one end of the Mark V where I hope it resides for the future.

Yup, I am once again on the move. Slowly but on the move.

Yes, I will let you know how the alignment works out. I expect the extension table swap will occur with no difficulty. As a pretest, before ordering the double tilt, I made my Mark V into a no-tilt by changing out a headrest for a base arm assembly. The alignment, in that configuration, went very smoothly but end for end swaps of extension tables was NOT spot on. The tables were more closely aligned than before but not perfect.

Yes, it feels good to be back in the shop even with limitations.

Do you not remember the very long thread where we had this very same discussion? My double tilt did not allow alignment from end to end any better than single tilt. Everyone assumed because the end castings are the same that it would eliminate the end to end errors. Not so as I think we proved. It certainly did not on my double tilt upgrade. What did Ed report?

Looking forward to your results. And yes it is great that you can get back in the shop. Keep on keeping on.

Yes, I remember it well. In fact, I have recently read through that thread again. I have spent a lot of time working on that extension table issue and I believe that to get the desired effect the Mark V needs to be built from the tubes up paying particular attention to all alignment details. I feel strongly enough about this that I am buying the double tilt to achieve that alignment; that along with a more stable main table alignment.

What convinced me was when I took the legs off and set the Mark V up on my work bench which is very flat. Not all of the end castings set firmly on the bench. I believe this is the twist the JPG speaks of. It must be eliminated. On the 510 this is nearly impossible due to the tie bar and base arm assembly.

We'll see whatever we see.

[JPG]

That would be the bench tube twist. 1 of 2. The double tilt should help eliminate the other(way tubes).

Canting of the spt mount bores can still be a problem(table side tilt).

And that depends upon headstock/main table alignment to the way tubes.

[reible]

Since I saw my name come up. I was able to get a table to align on the right then move it to the left and still be with in the magic .005". Of course it was off in a different direction, my guess is the rip fence accounted for that.

I was able to do that with the double tilt and I was never in many attempts able to do that with the standard hardware. I purchased a second extension table so I had one for both the right and left. I would have like to not have had to spend that money but shopsmith claimed that it wouldn't work and sure enough it wouldn't, well until I did the upgrade.

I'm looking forward to have a second person like Dusty doing this, it will either say the design is better or that I just got lucky.

I hope to do a second double tilt this summer. That machine also has the extra extension table so as you might have guessed I was never able to get that one to align either. That is the one that use to be a 510R and had issues with the 510 hardware and that was one of the reasons to upgrade it to a 520. It had the fully grooved table back then but I wasn't a fan of that either so I also upgrade that. I think I will also spring for a lift for that one as well.

Ed