Newbie question on main table support tube alignment

[mdfinder]

I apologize in advance if this information is on the boards somewhere, but I can't get the search feature to find it for me, and I have no manuals for the Shopsmith.
So here is my dilemma. I purchase a Shopsmith off of craig's list with the intent of making a dedicated drill press, as I have read a number of articles and viewed a number of youtube videos which indicated that the shopsmith make a great variable speed drill press.
I feel like I got a great bargain, but here is what I received.
A stand with way tubes in really great shape, some minor pitting on the bench tubes but the way tubes are near perfect.
According to the serial number, a 1983 head stock. I tore it down per Jacob Anderson's youtube videos and it is great shape. Looks like someone rebuilt it. It has a spotless quill, new belts, (they appear new to me)and it runs up and down the speed range very well.
Nothing else came with it but two boxes of miscellaneous parts.
The boxes contained two 510 tables, a 500 table, three 510 carriages, one 500 carriage, two 510 fences, one 500 fence, two 12 inch sanding pads, several push sticks, and jointer push blocks, table saw bottom guard, (think that is what it would be called, and two top guards, a 510 and a 500.
For all this I paid $220.00
Now here is my problem and my question.
I cleaned the tables up and polished them well. I cleaned the carriages up and polished them well and lubed everything.
But I can not get any of the tables to sit down in any of the carriages like I see every one do on the youtube videos.
They bind up immediately and will not fall far enough into the carriage to engage the pinion gears. I can knock them down with a mallet and then they drive up and down as they should, but when I go to lift the table out, it takes a good rubber mallet and an act of divine providence to get them to come out the last inch or so after they clear the gears.
Is there some sort of adjustment for this problem.
Putting one tube into another tube at an angle seems to be a sure fire way to create a lock, and I have down through the years used this method to make stops for various jigs and such. So I get that the tubes have to be in near perfect alignment in order to slide down into the carriage and back out, but there appears to be no adjustment, and my tubes do not appear to be bent. So I am wondering if there is a method to adjust, bend, whatever, to get them lined up.
Any help would really be appreciated.

[JPG]

There is no 'adjustment'.

There may be burrs on the post ends.

The posts may be 'caved in(out of round).

They may have been dropped.

Not actually gazing upon them those are my guesses(what to look for).

Since the problem occurs near the ends, look there.


Since removing the table from a drill press is seldom done, perhaps ignoring the problem is best if you cannot correct it.

The choice is yours, but I would use the 500 table and carriage for a drill press. But then that is what I have used the last half century.

P.S. You may need to 'file' them back to round. 'Test' them one at a time(one post in a single hole). The tubes can splay slightly so round tubes that clear the carriage bore are the goal.

[algale]

Indeed weird!

I can see one table getting its legs pinched together or spread apart to the point that it might be a tight fit in a carriage, or one carriage being messed up; but you have several tables and carriages to experiment with, so I am perplexed!

It may be a clue that you have so many different carriages and tables. Perhaps the Previous Owner was having issues and bought several to try to remedy the situation?

Is the headstock and carriage sliding properly on the way tubes (in theory the way tubes shouldn't have any impact on the ability of the table to move up and down in the carriage, but one never knows)?

[everettdavis]

Since the 500 and 510's have different spacing's, you have one 500 set and several combinations on the 510's.

I agree I would use the 500 for drill press if you can get that combination to work well. Disassemble the carriage and examine the tubes for roundness throughout by passing them through the carriage body alone. Really simple to disassemble.

Re-introduce the drive mechanism after you resolve the tubes passing freely through the various carriages, and that the tubes are parallel to each other.

One doesn't always know what stresses have been introduced to the bits and pieces over time in storage or in transport that you were not a part of.

I have even seen folks mix total shop stuff (knock off clone parts) into a sale.

Everett

[dusty]

The problem is not common but it is not unheard of.

I have one table that exhibits exactly the same insertion and removal characteristic. Since I have not resolved the problem I cannot tell you what the root cause of the problem is BUT I suspect that the main table legs are not perfectly parallel.

This link takes you to a set of instructions for installing the double tilt modification. Within the instructions are instructions for removing and installing the legs in the table bar and tube assembly (514344). If you drive the pins out and remove the legs from the tie bar, I would almost guarantee that the legs will insert into the carriage and run up and down the full length with NO PROBLEMS at all.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/manu ... _04-12.pdf You can purchase replacement pins from Shopsmith.

When you drive out the pins (if you do) be aware that they may be damaged such that you cannot reuse them.

I do not believe that you will find any problems with your carriages that would cause the stated symptoms.

Burrs, bent, out-of round...all possibilities but I doubt them all.

If you don't want to remove the legs from the tie bar (and I understand why you may not want to,) consider removing the trunnions from the table. This will allow you to use the table tie bar and legs without handling the weight of the table. Now you can insert each leg, independently into the carriage to determine if it will move up and down without binding. If one leg at a time moves freely, then you can almost be certain that the legs are move parallel to one another.

Incidentally, for $220 you made a real good buy. List your extra items on ebay and I feel certain that you will easily recover your investment.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=sh ... e&_sacat=0

Think about that for awhile though. The parts that you have could easily come into demand in your own shop.

[mdfinder]

So thankful for all the advice, especially the suggestion to use the 500 table and carriage. I have worked most of the morning on the 500 table and have it working well now, and I have one 510 working pretty well. What I have done is to take my old brake cylinder hone that I have not used in 20 years on a brake cylinder and honed the inside of the carriage, then continued to polish the support tubes. Took a file and filed a little on the racks to make sure everything was really smooth.
I think perhaps the fellow who sold me this, picked it up from someone who at one time repaired these things, as I have a number of duplicate items, basically bits and pieces of this and that.
But essentially I have it working now and I am very grateful for all the quick responses.
I have been on many forums and so often they are not very active, so I didn't know what to expect on this one, but think I will enjoy the Shopsmith community.
I will set this one up using the 500 table and try to ebay the other tables and fences. I suppose the used carriages won't be worth much.
So again, thanks, and as a final note, in the bottom of one of the tubs that all the parts were in, I found three brand new grease guns.
Pretty nice little bonus, so I feel like I really got a good deal on all this.
Mike

[rjent]

So thankful for all the advice, especially the suggestion to use the 500 table and carriage. I have worked most of the morning on the 500 table and have it working well now, and I have one 510 working pretty well. What I have done is to take my old brake cylinder hone that I have not used in 20 years on a brake cylinder and honed the inside of the carriage, then continued to polish the support tubes. Took a file and filed a little on the racks to make sure everything was really smooth.
I think perhaps the fellow who sold me this, picked it up from someone who at one time repaired these things, as I have a number of duplicate items, basically bits and pieces of this and that.
But essentially I have it working now and I am very grateful for all the quick responses.
I have been on many forums and so often they are not very active, so I didn't know what to expect on this one, but think I will enjoy the Shopsmith community.
I will set this one up using the 500 table and try to ebay the other tables and fences. I suppose the used carriages won't be worth much.
So again, thanks, and as a final note, in the bottom of one of the tubs that all the parts were in, I found three brand new grease guns.
Pretty nice little bonus, so I feel like I really got a good deal on all this.
Mike

You have just gotten a glimpse of the helpful people and incredible knowledge base contained in this forum. You will always get an answer and usually fairly quickly to any and all questions

Welcome to the madness. It is an addiction .... have fun

[dusty]

So thankful for all the advice, especially the suggestion to use the 500 table and carriage. I have worked most of the morning on the 500 table and have it working well now, and I have one 510 working pretty well. What I have done is to take my old brake cylinder hone that I have not used in 20 years on a brake cylinder and honed the inside of the carriage, then continued to polish the support tubes. Took a file and filed a little on the racks to make sure everything was really smooth.
I think perhaps the fellow who sold me this, picked it up from someone who at one time repaired these things, as I have a number of duplicate items, basically bits and pieces of this and that.
But essentially I have it working now and I am very grateful for all the quick responses.
I have been on many forums and so often they are not very active, so I didn't know what to expect on this one, but think I will enjoy the Shopsmith community.
I will set this one up using the 500 table and try to ebay the other tables and fences. I suppose the used carriages won't be worth much.
So again, thanks, and as a final note, in the bottom of one of the tubs that all the parts were in, I found three brand new grease guns.
Pretty nice little bonus, so I feel like I really got a good deal on all this.
Mike

Give some serious consideration to ridding yourself of the 510 tables and carriages. You might regret it.

[JPG]

And do not discount the carriages.

[mdfinder]

Thanks I will keep all that in mind. I have never sold anything on ebay, so figuring that out may be enough to keep me hanging on to the tables and carriages etc.
One problem that faces all of us, not enough room for everything. The shop just keeps filling up.