Oneida Dust Deputy and the DC-3300 - Part 1

[bobgroh]

Starting a new thread here as more and more information flows in - all of this concerns the use of Oneida Dust Deputy (DD) (the small molded cyclone) with the Shopsmith DC-3300.

We do know that some people have had good luck using the DD with the DC-3300.

Using info from the SS catalog and a video from the Shopsmith Academy, we can surmise that the DC-3300 is basically capable of 330 CFM at a static pressure of 5 inches of water (or so).

The DD is rated for a flow rate of 50 to 150 CFM (from Oneida web site and emails from Oneida Support). The Super Dust Deputy (SDD) (the next largest in Oneida's line is rated from flow rates of 350 to 850 CFM. So the DD is too small and the SDD is a bit too big.

So what happens if we 'overload' the DD? I don't know - I suspect/guess that the loss jumps and we lose some flow rate. What happens if we go too big (i.e. use the SDD)? I suspect that the lower flow rates might lead to lower dust extraction (i.e. more dust stays in suspension and goes up into the fan assy and out). I do know the DD costs $50 and the SDD costs $170!! Ouch. More to come

[dusty]

When I first began reading this thread (and the other) I wondered why a Cyclone was necessary if one already owns a dust collector. I still have that question but it seems that I might be the only one. Then someone mentioned Festool and my question was reemphasized. Festol claims to be "the best" at dust collection. Why in the world would I add a Cyclone to a Festol system?.

Same question: Why in the world would I add a Cyclone to the DC3300 system?

Then I went looking for some detail and I found a very interesting and very applicable Wood Whisperer video.

Again, it appears that I am the only one that does not understand.

What does the Cyclone actually do other than cause the air flow to swirl within the dust collector system? Doesn't the DC3300 do that also? Maybe not to the level of being cyclonic but it swirls.

[algale]

Here is my experience. I bought a Dust Deputy before I owned my DC3300. At the time, I was using a shopvac clone for dust collection and, without the Dust Deputy, the shopvac's filter quickly clogged and it lost suction. The Dust Deputy solved that problem. I view that as the Dust Deputy's primary function.

When I switched to the DC3300 I stopped using the Dust Deputy. But after changing the plastic dust collector bag on the DC3300 a couple of times, which can be a messy, pain-in-the-neck job, I decided to see whether I could use the Dusty Deputy in conjunction with the DC3300 on the theory that the chips and dust would be easier to dump from the Dust Deputy's bucket than from the DC3300 collection bags.

So I did hook up the Dust Deputy in line with the DC3300 and gave it a whirl. The first thing I noticed is that the 42" hood on the DC3300 was noticeably less inflated with the Dust Deputy in line than it was without the Dust Deputy. I concluded that the DC3300 was probably starving for air. That could cause less CFM = less efficient dust collection. I did try it on a few sawdust piles on the floor, and it picked them up, but I view the main job of the DC3300 to be collection at the tool and it is already borderline in my view without starving or restricting the air flow. So I disconnected the DC3300. I never really used them together again.

[dusty]

Here is my experience. I bought a Dust Deputy before I owned my DC3300. At the time, I was using a shopvac clone for dust collection and, without the Dust Deputy, the shopvac's filter quickly clogged and it lost suction. The Dust Deputy solved that problem. I view that as the Dust Deputy's primary function.

When I switched to the DC3300 I stopped using the Dust Deputy. But after changing the plastic dust collector bag on the DC3300 a couple of times, which can be a messy, pain-in-the-neck job, I decided to see whether I could use the Dusty Deputy in conjunction with the DC3300 on the theory that the chips and dust would be easier to dump from the Dust Deputy's bucket than from the DC3300 collection bags.

So I did hook up the Dust Deputy in line with the DC3300 and gave it a whirl. The first thing I noticed is that the 42" hood on the DC3300 was noticeably less inflated with the Dust Deputy in line than it was without the Dust Deputy. I concluded that the DC3300 was probably starving for air. That could cause less CFM = less efficient dust collection. I did try it on a few sawdust piles on the floor, and it picked them up, but I view the main job of the DC3300 to be collection at the tool and it is already borderline in my view without starving or restricting the air flow. So I disconnected the DC3300. I never really used them together again.

Interesting! You did not say but I assume you had the 50-150CFM Cyclone. I wonder if the larger Cyclone would produce different results.

[algale]

Interesting! You did not say but I assume you had the 50-150CFM Cyclone. I wonder if the larger Cyclone would produce different results.

Correct, it was the 50-150 CFM model.

[bobgroh]

algale, Excellent 'real world, in the field' results. Kind of ties in with comments from Oneida Support - they indicated they had one client who tried a DD with the DC-3300 and found a big drop in flow. And also ties in with my guess on expected results (higher flow rates give big increase in flow resistance in the DD). I do expect that the Super Dust Deputy (SDD) would work better with the DC-3300 but unsure of practical results.

I do know that I am a total fan of having a cyclone in front of my 'dust collector'. I think my present setup (6 gal ShopVac with dust bag inside and a Dust Deputy in front of that) works very well. Very little dust gets into the ShopVac's bag and certainly large stuff (e.g. pencils, screws, large chunks of wood) drop out into the cyclone. By golly, it works!! If I had the extra $$, I would (and may still) buy the SDD and give it a try with my 'new' DC-3300.

[dusty]

I would not expect the Super Dust Deputy to perform well with the DC3300 because of the CFM scale. The DC3300 is on the very low end of the SDD performance curve. What does that mean? It means that more dust will get through the dust devil and into the DC3300. It does not necessarily mean that the system will capture less dust.

A Dust Deputy of any size would probably be good news for the DC3300 because the chips, screws, short pencils and small blocks of wood will not get sucked into the DC3300 rotor blades. I'm fearful of inspecting mine. I have a lot of small gravel in and around my shop. I can hear it all when "it" hits the whirling disk. The fan blade could fail at any time now and I would not be surprised.

[reible]

Not having a DC-3300 let me ask those that do.

If one were to have say 2 ports (an input splitter) to draw air into then would it not make since that when hooked up differently it might help to regulate the air flow. A dust deputy hooked to one of those port and then other port can be closed (equals a single port staus quo) or the second port open/restricted to allow more air flow through that open/restricted port might work?

(I seem to recall reading that some people like to have port open to collect escaped dust in the room while using another port for attaching to equipment.)

I like the dust deputy because it collects most of the saw dust and all of the bigger bits in the bucket. Nothing large ever gets to the vacuum and I can fill the bucket several times before I even see any collection in the vacuum cleaner, and then it might be a teaspoons worth. It is much easier to empty and no bags are needed.

I believe that the DC-3300 has an impeller in the path, well if a larger bit gets in somewhere will that not lodge or wreck things? So things like the shopsmith bandsaw have restrictors in the dust ports but things like the table saw do not, and of course the floor is a more likely place to pick up a nail or screw...... The dust deputy would keep that from happening.

For the large vacuum with 4" hose I have a garbage can separator, a cover with two ports. It just works with the change of pressure/flow rate from hose to can, I've had that for years, many many years before dust deputy were invented. I like it because it keeps the larger items from getting to the impeller....... and of course it too keeps a lot of the sawdust from collection in the bags. It is not as good as a dust deputy but it cost a whole lot less too.

Ed

[bobgroh]

Ed, you certainly bring up a few very interesting points! In fact the DC-3300 does have a 'splitter' built right in - i.e. they have 3 input ports (each for 2-1/2" hose). And if you simply left one of these ports open, that should reduce the DC-3300 flow capacity for a better match to the flow capacity of the smaller Dust Deputy.

Regarding the fan inside the DC-3300, it certainly is susceptible to damage from larger 'stuff' getting into it. And having a cyclone or something in front of it is a really good idea unless you know you are always going to be sucking up dust and small shavings.

Running the DC-3300 open port is actually mentioned in the manual (I think) as a way to purge the air in the shop.

I'm encouraged! It's coming together. Still would love to know how the bigger Dust Deputy would work.

[reible]

This is the newer version of the one I have. Mine came with straight pipes in to the can. I added elbows as is shown on this one. This one looks a lot nicer then mine but I don't think it would work any better so I'll stick with what I have.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/143290 ... e-lid.aspx

I think I saw a smaller version of this in the store. I'll try and find it and add it to this post in case someone might want to try it.

Ed

Edit:

Smaller version is here:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/143868 ... rator.aspx