Festool my journey and where I am today

[reible]

My first thoughts were that they were over priced and not worth it. I'm not a premium sort of guy, no BMW or Audi's in my driveway. Like wise most of my tools might be nice but not top of the line.

I was also aware of the slippery slop of tool purchases if they happen to be thing you fancy. It would be anyone's guess as to how many $$ I've spent on shopsmith stuff over the years.... a lot!!! Let along how much I've spent on say routers and related things.

I have had several edge guide systems that I have either built or purchased. I mean a piece mdf, a piece of pine and you have a place to run a circular saw and establish a repeatable edge. Other systems with captured saws and so on and I've gotten by.

Heck in my younger years I even cut sheets of plywood on my 500, either with stands or a little help from someone. Even easier once I got a 520.

The problem with taking the plywood to the saw is that the plywood doesn't get any lighter as you age. Your arms don't get any stronger, or longer either. If you are so lucky as to add a bad back to the mix, well you manage but you also most likely start looking for better ways.

If you happen to start looking at making a large project out of plywood or other sheet goods you find that the cost of the wood is going to be a major expense. Miss cut a sheet and well you are going to be out some real money. Sure its always been that way but it seems that wood prices are raising faster then ever.

So I have a couple of projects that I want to do that will take some major sheet goods work. One of my first steps was thinking about how I was going to handle this. I mostly, and by that I mean always work alone. I do have a adult children in the area but they have busy life's with their children and I don't want to be a burden.

So I can go to the store and have someone help me load plywood sheets in the back of the van. So that part hasn't changed much. Yes I did have the option of having the sheets cut at the store but that has been a hit and miss situation to the point I don't like doing that anymore. I did have to work with that then I didn't have a way to transport full sheets but that is not the case now.

The use of saw horses, and or using the ground is not fun as it once was. It is also not very productive as doing that very long means I will not be doing it for long without a bit of discomfort and by that I mean a lot of discomfort. I started looking at building something or purchasing something to deal with this.

Now I have very little free space. My driveway is my shop on all large projects. Even storing things is a problem. So I spotted this thing called a centipede sawhorse system. It folds up small and can support full size sheets of plywood. It is a decent height so I can pull a sheet of plywood out of the back of the van and onto the top.

So now I have something that is more attuned to my hopes and dreams of a work surface. However I was also looking at the track saw system trying to decide which one. I was basically looking at the festool as a reference.

One of the things I found was that while various places had various makes of these saw systems actually having one to touch and feel was not so easy. My local woodcraft store took care of the my need to touch and feel the hardware festool wise. Price was still a hang up for me.

Back when I was working it was nothing to spend a couple of hundred for things every month. I worked with budget but without much constraint, that can be a problem for people like me who love tools almost as much as using them. We had some leaner year after that. Retirement gives you more time to do things at home but it also comes with having a lot less money to spend, well it did in my case anyway. I did have a pile of money saved up for shop upgrades just after I retired, while the pile looked large it went pretty quickly. Things like upgrading from a 500 to a 520 will do that.

Knowing that I wanted to make some shop changes again this past year I had set aside some money for that. Enough money to get any of the track saw system and more. Of course I under estimated the real cost, and that was without the slippery slope thing kicking in.

Keep in mind I was not a green festool fan then. But after even more research the more I started thinking yes a bit of money but..... always a dangerous thing to do.

A few more trips to the woodcraft, a few discussions with people who use them, a few more reviews, a few more dollars.....

So stay tuned and we will get to the details. Have to go watch Scott make something, he's been using festools a bit of late so maybe more today?

Ed

[ecom1]

Good luck Ed - I'll be interested to see how this turns out for you.

Just throwing it out there, but do you really need to haul full sheets away from your plywood dealer? Most big box stores with cut the sheets for you, and same with the plywood dealers (in my area anyway), so if you have your plan already done, you could have the sheets cut to size before you take them home. It might cost a buck a cut, but you could pay for a lot of cuts before paying for a track system.

I admit I've had the same thought (track system/panel saw could be handy), but for the number of times should actually "need" to use it (i.e. versus planning and having the cuts made at purchase), I couldn't justify it in my budget.

[jsburger]

Good luck Ed - I'll be interested to see how this turns out for you.

Just throwing it out there, but do you really need to haul full sheets away from your plywood dealer? Most big box stores with cut the sheets for you, and same with the plywood dealers (in my area anyway), so if you have your plan already done, you could have the sheets cut to size before you take them home. It might cost a buck a cut, but you could pay for a lot of cuts before paying for a track system.

I admit I've had the same thought (track system/panel saw could be handy), but for the number of times should actually "need" to use it (i.e. versus planning and having the cuts made at purchase), I couldn't justify it in my budget.

I would never trust anyone to make a precise cut on any piece of stock I buy and use it as a finish cut. If you just want the stock broken down with rough cuts to make it easier to handle then OK. Then it has to be cut to size at your shop.

[ecom1]

If you just want the stock broken down with rough cuts to make it easier to handle then OK. Then it has to be cut to size at your shop.

Agreed - that's what I meant.

[reible]

In this part of the post we will get into what I purchased and about what I paid for it. Festool has set prices so there are no cheap places to buy them. They do sometimes have sales or let you combine two items at a better price, that is about it. And I'll use the 2016 catalog prices but they may have changed by now.

The saw, they have several versions of these but the basic ones for the job I have in mind are the TS 55 REQ and the TS 75 REQ. The basic difference is the size but that ends up being a change in a few aspects of the saws. My first though was the 75 model due to the deep cut capacity. You pay for that in the $780 price tag and again in size and weight. After handing them and looking at the price tag and what I really need in the depth of cut I opted to go with the 55 at a mere $660.

If you have sticker shock you might want to stop reading this post, if you are feeling strong enough then continue but it will be getting worse.

So the saw comes with a rail. Since these tools are for the most part metric it will be called a fs 1400, this translates to about 55". You need a start area and end area so for a 4 foot cut across a sheet of plywood the 55" rail is just right. Now they make other size rails, a couple of shorter ones and a couple of longer ones. They also make things called connectors to allow two sections of track to connect to make a longer section. They sell these connectors as single items, you really need two of them. Well I'm going to leave it at that for now but don't start placing any orders yet.

The other thing you will want are clamps. They sell a few versions of these as well. The screw clamps come in two lengths, they also come as a package of two and for purposes of the discussion think of them as the $43 or $54 versions. They also sell a quick clamp version, one at a time for $39.

So we have now spent in the order of $738 not including tax(for those with different tax rates you can add that on or not). We can now effective cut just 4 feet. If you want to work on sheet goods that is not going to be enough. I was advised to buy a fs2700 track which is good for 106" or the length of a sheet of plywood. This track adds $331 to the cost. Well I didn't listen and decided I would go with a second section of 55" track. At $133 this sound like a better deal. Yes you have to have the two connectors but that is only $36.

The cost is now at $907. I'm happy and it is time to put the system to use. It becomes clear that the system gives great cuts and works pretty much like one would/could hope for. I didn't get the vacuum system but even with my old shopvac the dust collection is really really good. Cuts are nice and clean and your pretty happy with yourself.

Then you find that the reason people recommend the longer track rather then the two stuck together is because those connectors are not as wonderful as you hoped. First you have to take the time to get the tracks aligned with each other then if you get a little to ruff with them the connectors don't keep it that way. Come to find out this is a weak link. That and if you have only the two tracks you make a few long cuts then want to go back to cross cuts you have to take it apart again and then the back and forth stuff gets old. Turns out Makita makes a better version that fits your track. A total of $43.10 more. But it still time consuming to align the rail and to take them apart and put back together over and over.

Well why not throw some more money at it? So there is the company that saw this issue and made an alignment tool. It works great, if you try to go with the two track solution this is the tool that makes it work for you. Can't say enough about it. It is a Betterley Straightline Connector, get ready to add $99 to the purchase. By now it more then likely I would have been better off with the longer track rather then the way I went but it's now working so again I'm happy. Bill is now at $1049.10.

So now you can get your cutting done. Mark the sheet up and match the cut edge and more the most part the clamps aren't needed so thing are great. But, well it takes time to make a cut then measure move and cut again, now if only I had a way of making repeated cuts easier. Well festool guested you get to that point so they sell a parallel guide system, or the parallel guide extension, $279 or $335. They are not the only game in town on this and I went with another version but might in the future get these as they now have one with imperial measurements, they didn't have this when I first was looking at them. I went with ripdog guides, a kit for $140 but you have to add incra tracks and scales to the cost(about $36 if I recall right). It works pretty well and saved me some money. We are now at $1225.10.

We are not done yet but I need to take some time off and get a few more things done. When I return we will start adding the extras like the MFT.... so stay tuned.

Ed

[claimdude]

Enjoying the reading Ed! I have the TS55, CT22, Ultimate Dust Deputy, ETS 125 EC, RO90, RO125, HKC saw, Domino, and the vac sys kit. So yeah, you can spend some change.... have other stuff (drills, etc) too but got to run to town. Been hooked up with Festool stuff for close to ten years so if you have any questions shoot away.

Jack

[reible]

OK then, perhaps a bit of time should be spent on the fact that there are different ways to look at doing any project. When you use a shopsmith you get use to planning to do it as best dictated by the tool. Most of us here are use to that. When you go to track saw system like I'm working with you need to adjust your mind set a bit. Things like get parts square or reasonably so requires you to think about how it needs to work out.

The edges of plywood can be damaged or be less then perfect so a trimming cut is done to remove that edge. If its a shelf for the garage then who really cares and the ruff edge is fine, a nice cabinet, that is a different story. The track saw makes these cuts very simple. The cuts following this initial cut is based on that now clean edge. Those cuts are basically all parallel unless operator error comes into play. The important point is that they are not necessarily square.

So when we approach the building of something we have to address how to make sure we are "square". Now granted there are time that the intent is to be sloped or what ever but none the less square still becomes a how to in most cases. Yes you can use a square and mark lines square to the cut edge and do fine. Then comes the other end when the length is established you again need to get that end square to the cut line. A bunch of repeat cuts and any are is magnified.

My approach was to add the festool multifuction table or MFT to be more precise I went with the MFT/3. In simple terms it is a workbench that folds down and is portable. That works nice for me as it can be folded up in the garage and then pulled out and set up for use. It comes with a guide rail system that can be used to cut square cuts or angled cuts and has a grid pattern of holes for clamping and holding and as it turns out the hole pattern is cnc cut so it can be used for squaring..... and well that turns out to be very useful.

These table are not cheap. The table with track system is $665, the basic one is still $560. You can connect the tables so expansion is a possibility. I think they quote the weight at less then 50 pounds but I'd have to check that out. It can work in an on the ground position or up on its legs. It is reasonably stable but for some reason they decided that the leg braces are optional. I really can see someone feeling they don't need them, well maybe if you use it in the low positon.... anyway what is another $80 for the cross members.

The tables have tracks and the clamps you purchased when you got the saw work with them as well as the holes in the top. The hole system uses 20mm holes on 96mm centers so plenty of holes for clamping up just about anything.

This gets a little to confusing to try and explain in too much detail so I think it best of you look them up on the web and then try to follow along with this discussion.

The table has a fence that aligns along it long access. It has a protractor head to set angles with and a lock to hold it in place on the far end. It has parts that slide into the tracks on the sides of the table, one has a hinge to attach a track to and the other side has a rail matching support. These adjust for the height of the work piece. It can be set to provide a 90 degree cut to the fence. Those parts that fit in the side track have stops set so you can relocate them to the same place time after time. The "key" that fits into the rail on the side opposite the hinge assures the alignment. The track on the hinge flips up out of the way when positioning the work piece. There is also a stop on the fence for repeated length cuts.

So using the track alone can work but to make this true system the addition of the MFT should be considered.

So we have now added the table and cross supports, another $745. Still not done adding things, sorry to say.

When you take the MFT apart after use to store or to use for some other function and want to return it to do those all important square cuts you can't just hope it all comes back to the same settings. It does well but a check should be done. The rail sits up a bit from the table so using a normal square is not as functional as you might hope. A popular way of doing the checking is to buy a tool for the job. Cnc cut and pretty precise is the Anderson layout square, somewhere near $25 plus postage. It makes the task both quick and easy.

Those with work benches may have dog holes in them and have some familiarity with the concept. Well some people saw the advantage of these dog holes being cnc place and cut, such that by placing precision dogs in the holes you have a way to use the dogs to locate the track and get accurate results. There are various people selling various versions of these dogs, I of course caught the bug and have a growing collection of them. With out a good way to get pictures I don't see any way to present what this represents to the table so I'm going to leave it up to those interested to search the web out for videos and descriptions, for here I just wanted to mention them so you know about them.

As you can see it was quite easy to rack up some expenditures on this stuff. This is only the tip of the iceberg that is festools. There are more things I'll be adding this coming year but even with my tool budget there are limits.

I will do one more post where I will attempt to locate the parts I mentioned as none festool additions so you can add them to your research.

Ed

[reible]

Here are the links I promised.

Betterley SLC23 StraightLine Connector for Festool Guide Rails

http://www.festoolproducts.com/betterle ... rails.html

to me this is a must have if you are connecting rails.

Ripdogs has several items, I have the rip guides from them. You need to get the incra t-track plus and scales else where.

http://www.ripdogs.com/

The layout square can be seen here:

https://www.andersonplywood.com/square- ... ft-square/

You can live without it but why?

Makita P-45777 Guide Rail Connector Kit you need two of them.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004O ... UTF8&psc=1

A start on the bench dogs:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.a ... at=1,41637

http://www.qwasproducts.com/Home.html

http://precisiondogs.us/products/precision-bench-dogs

FOG:

http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/

If you have questions please feel free to ask and please no complaints about the cost, they are what they are.

Ed

[BuckeyeDennis]

Ed, thanks for all the great info. I recently got embarassingly good deals on a similar Makita track saw and three sections of 55" Makita track, all brand new, from a local online auction site that liquidates Amazon returns and such. I had to pay full retail, though, for two of the Makita track couplers and some DeWalt track clamps. Although I've only used the system a couple of times so far, it's already saving me time and improving my craftsmanship.

I was vaguely aware of the MFT, but had no clue just how how many things it could do for you. I had already started planning some custom jigs to accomplish just a subset of these. Now the MFT is looking pretty darned good, if I factor a reasonable value for my own time. The Makita track and Festool track are reportedly interchangeable, so I expect that the MFT would work just fine with my Makita stuff.

Among other things, I just learned that the nice precision CNC-machined top is intended for use as a sacrifical surface for the track saw. And that replacements aren't exactly cheap. Do you have any plans for making your own replacement tops?

[reible]

I've been using the system for plywood but after watching Scott Phillips cutting some regular lumber I'm going to start doing that as well. I have a garden bench that I'd like to try it on, some time in the spring I dare say.

Yes it appears the the Makita parts are interchangeable, and as I mentioned the connectors are better. I also have a router adapter from them that allows the use of my Dewalt compact router with the track. I've mounted it but not cut with it, but see no reason for it to not work.

The MFT is great. I take it out for a lot of projects, even when I'm planning on using the shopsmith, always nice to have another place to put things out on the driveway.

So far no cuts in the table top. One of the guys I talked with mentioned that while the table is I think $135 it has two sides, so when one is used up you flip it over and use that side up. He also said he puts a 1/4" piece of mdf on the table and cuts over that. So I've been doing that since day one and thus far have found no reason to cut the table top. That might change at some point but so far so good.

Also look into the dogs, I use them to install the fence and then adjusted the track to be at 90 degrees using the dogs. It was slightly off from the factory and now it seems after a minor adjustment to be and stay right on.

I also have a piece of the pink insulation sized for the MFT table, for doing other work where the mdf might not work out. I have a full sheet pink to put on the centipede for cutting there.

The track holds in place much better then I expected, it isn't often I feel the need for clamping. Using the router is another matter, there it needs to be clamped.

Ed

Ed, thanks for all the great info. I recently got embarassingly good deals on a similar Makita track saw and three sections of 55" Makita track, all brand new, from a local online auction site that liquidates Amazon returns and such. I had to pay full retail, though, for two of the Makita track couplers and some DeWalt track clamps. Although I've only used the system a couple of times so far, it's already saving me time and improving my craftsmanship.

I was vaguely aware of the MFT, but had no clue just how how many things it could do for you. I had already started planning some custom jigs to accomplish just a subset of these. Now the MFT is looking pretty darned good, if I factor a reasonable value for my own time. The Makita track and Festool track are reportedly interchangeable, so I expect that the MFT would work just fine with my Makita stuff.

Among other things, I just learned that the nice precision CNC-machined top is intended for use as a sacrifical surface for the track saw. And that replacements aren't exactly cheap. Do you have any plans for making your own replacement tops?