PBS "Command and Control"

[reible]

Here is the list of the "32" and note the missile from this book and movie is is in the list.

This number is only 32, but because you have a certain criteria to make it on the list and this exploding rocket did make the list. But other accidents perhaps didn't make the list but could have been had not been for some luck.

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Almanac/Br ... atic.shtml

The one listed as 1961 in NC is also know because of the 4 (four) switches to arm it 3 had become unlocked only a single low voltage switch may have saved the day. The other one was found 55' into the ground and the core was never recovered.

Other lost devices may have been found, one in Georgia, lost in the ocean was located not long ago as well as one off Canada.

Over all with all nations with lost weapons I saw a number of 1276. Sure the US might not have many on the list but still that is a lot of lost or missing materials.

Ed

[ERLover]

Here is the list of the "32" and note the missile from this book and movie is is in the list.

This number is only 32, but because you have a certain criteria to make it on the list and this exploding rocket did make the list. But other accidents perhaps didn't make the list but could have been had not been for some luck.

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Almanac/Br ... atic.shtml

The one listed as 1961 in NC is also know because of the 4 (four) switches to arm it 3 had become unlocked only a single low voltage switch may have saved the day. The other one was found 55' into the ground and the core was never recovered.

Other lost devices may have been found, one in Georgia, lost in the ocean was located not long ago as well as one off Canada.

Over all with all nations with lost weapons I saw a number of 1276. Sure the US might not have many on the list but still that is a lot of lost or missing materials.

Ed

Just glad there safety deviceses worked. One of the more modern day ones, could spew so much into the atmosphere that we would be suffering long term effects for years.
I really wounder when we were doing above ground and later below ground nuke blast, with the winds blowing west to east. What in creases in cancer it may have caused.

[joedw00]

I streamed it here this afternoon, it just asked me for my local PBS station.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperie ... ol/player/

Thanks ERLOVER for sharing.

[dickg1]

Dusty,
"SACCS - Strategic Air Command and Control Systems" is not correct.
The correct acronym is " Sac Automated Command Control System"

I know, this is a minor issue, however I spent about nine years with that system. First, in the early sixties, at International Electric Corporation (a subsidiary of ITT) in Paramus, NJ. Then at the 8th Air Force Command Post buried in a mountain near Springfield, Massachusetts where we tested the operation at that facility before turning it over to SAC. Finally at SAC Headquarters at Offutt AFB near Omaha, Nebraska monitoring the system operation. Then with four others I helped develop the specifications for the follow-on system which replaced the original SACCS in the late seventies (again engineered by an ITT subsidiary)
By the time SACCS was declared operational in the latter part of the sixties it was significantly obsolete and it was time to start over.
SACCS was a precursor to the internet and was groundbreaking in many ways. Nothing like it had ever existed and many of the major components had to be invented.
SACCS electronically provided force capability information for the strategic forces command control component. It allowed a rapid assessment of our nuclear force capability to perform the mission. The system provided concise information for decisions at the command level for implementation at the control level relative to force status. It was not a battle-management system - that was the SIOP (Single Integrated Operations Plan) which was produced on the SACCS computer systems. A different story!

Dick

P.S For Ed, I am aware of one "Broken Arrow" incident that is not include in the summary that you referenced.

[dusty]

Dusty,
"SACCS - Strategic Air Command and Control Systems" is not correct.
The correct acronym is " Sac Automated Command Control System"

I know, this is a minor issue, however I spent about nine years with that system. First, in the early sixties, at International Electric Corporation (a subsidiary of ITT) in Paramus, NJ. Then at the 8th Air Force Command Post buried in a mountain near Springfield, Massachusetts where we tested the operation at that facility before turning it over to SAC. Finally at SAC Headquarters at Offutt AFB near Omaha, Nebraska monitoring the system operation. Then with four others I helped develop the specifications for the follow-on system which replaced the original SACCS in the late seventies (again engineered by an ITT subsidiary)
By the time SACCS was declared operational in the latter part of the sixties it was significantly obsolete and it was time to start over.
SACCS was a precursor to the internet and was groundbreaking in many ways. Nothing like it had ever existed and many of the major components had to be invented.
SACCS electronically provided force capability information for the strategic forces command control component. It allowed a rapid assessment of our nuclear force capability to perform the mission. The system provided concise information for decisions at the command level for implementation at the control level relative to force status. It was not a battle-management system - that was the SIOP (Single Integrated Operations Plan) which was produced on the SACCS computer systems. A different story!

Dick

P.S For Ed, I am aware of one "Broken Arrow" incident that is not include in the summary that you referenced.

Yup. You are so correct. It is a shame because I should not make such a mistake as that. I too spent my share of time with SAC. The five years with the SAC MSET. The rest of my SAC experience was with 801st Communications Squadron in Tucson. There I was the flunky Maintenance Superintendent. The real work was done by the maintenance crews who spent most of their time traveling around from Titan site to Titan site. We had fifteen to baby sit. One is now a museum.

[JPG]

Wonder if it was that museum that was in the 'movie'.

[jsburger]

I was a member of the Titan team in Tucson when this happened. Yes, a very disturbing experience.

It is, BTW, a prime example of what can happen when someone does not follow "all of the rules". When working in the hole, ALL tools (no matter how small) are suppose to be on safety lanyards. The skin of the Titan was actually quit fragile. It did not take much to do damage.

As far as the missile being GONE....well, I certainly hope that we never find ourselves in a situation where we wish it was back.

Strategic Air Command (SAC), Where Peace is Our Professional. re: my avatar

SACCS - Strategic Air Command and Control Systems

WOW, I didn't know. Now I know why you want everything precise. . I wore the SAC patch on my uniform for many years.

I never thought about it that way but maybe part of my training does show through. I spent, in addition to time in the hole, five years on the Maintenance Standardization Evaluation Team. Our function was to evaluate personnel performance all throughout the SAC system to make certain we all performed critical tasks IAW the approved procedures. MSET performed all throughout SAC, every SAC facility was subject to our evaluations on a no notice basis.

I learned to really dislike No Notice Inspections. When we showed up, all hell broke loose. We ruined a lot family events and probably some families by doing what we did.

I have always attributed my desire for precision and my personal discipline to the 24 years I spent working with munitions, both nuclear and conventional. Everything we did was by a check list. Every procedure was done exactly the same way every time. There is no room for error in the munitions world. Apparently the Broken Arrow incident in Arkansas was caused by an individual not following established procedures.

Oh yes MSET. You guys were always fun. SAC was king of the no notice inspections. In 1976 (I think) when I was stationed at Kincheloe AFB in the UP of Michigan MSET showed up on Mothers Day Sunday. I had left the house to get a bottle of wine at the Class VI store. On the way back to the house there was a steady stream of cars coming out of the housing area headed to the flight line. When I got to the house my wife said there was a recall in progress. So much for the Mothers Day BBQ. Ah the good old days. Yes I would do it all again.

Most of my time in SAC was spent as the weapons load crew chief of the Loading Standardization Crew (LSC). It was my crews job to train and certify all of the other load crews and develop standardized procedures for all operations.

[ERLover]

Wonder if it was that museum that was in the 'movie'.

Yep, it was. I watched a short clip on the making of the movie, they mentioned that.

[jsburger]

Here is the list of the "32" and note the missile from this book and movie is is in the list.

This number is only 32, but because you have a certain criteria to make it on the list and this exploding rocket did make the list. But other accidents perhaps didn't make the list but could have been had not been for some luck.

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Almanac/Br ... atic.shtml

The one listed as 1961 in NC is also know because of the 4 (four) switches to arm it 3 had become unlocked only a single low voltage switch may have saved the day. The other one was found 55' into the ground and the core was never recovered.

Other lost devices may have been found, one in Georgia, lost in the ocean was located not long ago as well as one off Canada.

Over all with all nations with lost weapons I saw a number of 1276. Sure the US might not have many on the list but still that is a lot of lost or missing materials.

Ed

Just glad there safety deviceses worked. One of the more modern day ones, could spew so much into the atmosphere that we would be suffering long term effects for years.
I really wounder when we were doing above ground and later below ground nuke blast, with the winds blowing west to east. What in creases in cancer it may have caused.

There is a documented increase in cancer and other related diseases. The people involved are called Down Winders. Mostly they lived in Nevada, Utah and Arizona. Google Down Winders and a Wickipedia link will show up.

[dusty]

WOW, I didn't know. Now I know why you want everything precise. . I wore the SAC patch on my uniform for many years.

I never thought about it that way but maybe part of my training does show through. I spent, in addition to time in the hole, five years on the Maintenance Standardization Evaluation Team. Our function was to evaluate personnel performance all throughout the SAC system to make certain we all performed critical tasks IAW the approved procedures. MSET performed all throughout SAC, every SAC facility was subject to our evaluations on a no notice basis.

I learned to really dislike No Notice Inspections. When we showed up, all hell broke loose. We ruined a lot family events and probably some families by doing what we did.

I have always attributed my desire for precision and my personal discipline to the 24 years I spent working with munitions, both nuclear and conventional. Everything we did was by a check list. Every procedure was done exactly the same way every time. There is no room for error in the munitions world. Apparently the Broken Arrow incident in Arkansas was caused by an individual not following established procedures.

Oh yes MSET. You guys were always fun. SAC was king of the no notice inspections. In 1976 (I think) when I was stationed at Kincheloe AFB in the UP of Michigan MSET showed up on Mothers Day Sunday. I had left the house to get a bottle of wine at the Class VI store. On the way back to the house there was a steady stream of cars coming out of the housing area headed to the flight line. When I got to the house my wife said there was a recall in progress. So much for the Mothers Day BBQ. Ah the good old days. Yes I would do it all again.

Most of my time in SAC was spent as the weapons load crew chief of the Loading Standardization Crew (LSC). It was my crews job to train and certify all of the other load crews and develop standardized procedures for all operations.

There is a better than fifty/fifty chance that I was part of the team that showed up there. During that period of time, we had two traveling teams that shared the honors. I do not remember a Mothers' at Kinchloe but I visited there three times so there is a good chance I was one of the bastards. Do acknowledge, however, that if I was, I also spent Mothers' Day in Kinchloe.

Those were not the "Good Ole Days" for me. I did not know it then but my family was sacrificing a lot more than I was. The girls were in high school. Important years that I missed.