saw stop

[Gene Howe]

But then again some people shouldn't eat with a fork either !
Paul

Right on, Paul!

[robinson46176]

It's not uncommon for me to work a piece of green wood... or just a piece that has gotten wet from a bit of water from a freak wind blowing rain in on some stored stuff (rustic work for outdoors). That could get expensive.
Then there is all of that initial cost just buying the thing. Yeah, I know what a new Shopsmith cost but I won't be buying a new one of those this century either. OK, if I was setting up shop from scratch and felt I had the money to spare I "might" consider a Sawstop type saw but I would still want a few Shopsmith's for the versatility (see my signature below).
The best way to avoid cutting up your hand on the spinning blade is just don't put your hand in that area...
I don't want to pick on anybody but I have yet to figure out how anyone saws into their miter-gauge making any kind of normal cut. I keep seeing them quite often with big cut marks on all kinds of used table saws at auctions. The miter-gauge only belongs in the miter-gauge slots, no where else on the table. On any setup all clearances should automatically be checked before making a cut and with the saw still off. Once you start cutting the miter-gauge should never leave the slot... How do they get big slots cut in them? Obviously the operator at some point lost control of the board and the miter-gauge both. If the miter-gauge is coming up out of the slot you are doing something very fundamentally wrong. The blade is usually pretty good at staying where it belongs. Obviously anyone can make an error but why do I see so many with cuts and also so many cut up fences? It all kind of makes me think of the scene in the "Grinch" where he is sewing away and the dog suddenly is being fed down through the sewing machine as part of the thread.

As to using a RAS, I still have one and while I don't use it often I have no qualms about using it if I need it and that includes for ripping. In the early days a RAS was the only saw I had and I used it regularly without incident. There were a few things I was extra careful about. One was that I always made sure that I had it sitting with the front higher than the back so if the head were to move from vibration that it would not move out into the wood to be cut. At one time I had a tiny spring reel on one to keep the head pulled to the back of the arm. It was one like the one at this site with the metal bracket.
http://www.springcompany.com/products/spring-reels
It had originally been part of a card reader on a million dollar main-frame computer but they never missed it.
No, actually the field engineer gave it to me after the ring had come off of the end of the tiny cable.
An added 8' long extension table on each side of the saw was great for keeping a long board under control. When ripping (which I did a lot) I always made sure that what was normally the back of the guard was lowered down to the surface of the board being cut (so it could not lift) and that the anti-kick-back was properly adjusted. I have also heard of guys describing what I call "climb cutting" while ripping which I can only perceive as feeding the board in from the wrong end.
Each of my side tables had a fence that was aligned to the regular crosscutting fence on the saw like on a miter-saw stand which kept the board lined up properly with the blade. I am currently flip-flopping back and forth about whether I want to move my RAS into the basement woodshop (from the farm-shop) or if I want to move it to a building next to the sawmill for stuff like end trimming. They usually sell a few at the Amish consignment auctions (2 a year, spring and fall) and I might just try to buy a second one for the sawmill shed. They usually go really cheap. Cheap like less than $20, often around $5.
I've heard a lot of wild stories about RAS's but my experience has always been positive.

Speaking of serious injuries... I just now reached up quickly to scratch my nose and stabbed the sharp toothpick in my mouth into the palm of my hand. Do you suppose that falls under workman's comp for a retired guy?


.

[JPG]

If I recall ,,,,,,a few years ago ,,,,they were saying that radial arm saws were on their way out,,,,, because too many people were getting hurt.




Hobbyman2

It ain't the saw's fault!

[benush26]

First, with the current court ruling, there is little chance that there will be any saws with "sensing" technology other than SawStop for the near future.
Second, is my old farts take on SawStop and why one will probably be something I acquire within a few years. Neither my hearing nor vision is failing but I have neuropathy in my fingers and feet, and little when it comes to reliable balance. Even with all the safe guards in place, and mentally alert, I have a strong concern that I may stumble or lean too far forward and need to catch myself. Not a fan of Murphy nor his laws, I am trying to prevent that stumble resulting in a quick removal of digits that though I don't feel them as well as I used to , I am still rather fond of them.
I will be buying the DeWalt track saw in a couple weeks so I am hoping that it will do a good enough job of breaking down sheet goods, that the ShopSmith table saw will be fine for the rest of my projects. However, as the scope of my next few projects increases, I see the benefit of a dedicated table saw and frankly, my old cast iron Craftsman is just not what I want to have to rely upon. So, if I practIce what I preach, the SawStop is the most logical choice. As a disclaimer, I had wanted to buy the Bosch if they ever developed a cabinet saw for the Reaxx, but with the court ruling Bosch is not even a consideration any longer.
I will keep the Mark 7 because I have all my SPTs and think the DVR is perfect for all the additional tasks I want, especially the lathe, drill press and molder. I did have plans for an expanded shop addition, but my cousin has flaked out on every other promise so I will have an unexpanded garage/shop with significantly less space when I trade the footprint of the Craftsman for the SawStop.
Making shavings and saw dust is one of my few pure pleasures. I cannot foresee a day where I give that up until my mental ability is better suited to trying to figure out how to tie my shoes than how to turn a pen. I get grumpy (grumpier? ) when I am away from the shop for long periods of time. The mental gymnastics of design (thanks to SketchUp) and the tactile of playing with wood and tools keeps me happy to just wake up (even if it not nearly as early as I used to ).
Yes, maybe I am rationalizing my purchases!! But what good is living longer if you can't get a chance to enjoy the longevity?
Just my thoughts.

Be well,
Ben

[Hobbyman2]

I agree with you guys ,,

I built quite a bit of stuff with a RAS.

Although using it like a drill press was a little sketchy.

Stupid things ,

will say this , working at the pattern shop years ago a RAS was one saw they didn't have, boss said ya don't need one.

Said here,, is a couple hand saws ! one is for ripping ,, the other is for cross cutting ,not as much mess to clean up .

Got to be pretty good with them old saws.

Set the saw kerf and file em down, would cut faster then moving the board setting up the saw and cleaning up the place,,,,,,

That was along time ago.

Hobbyman2

[wa2crk]

A couple of years ago we had a member of our woodworking club receive an injury using our table saw that required 27 stitches to close the wound. This guy had vast experience with power equipment.
As a result we bought a Grizzly table saw because we thought the upper blade guard would be easier to remove and replace during use. The saw that was in use when the injury occurred did not have a user friendly upper blade guard so the members would not use it
A year ago another member was hurt using the Grizzly saw because the upper blade guard was not as user friendly as it appeared in the Grizzly literature.
I really don't know why the members won't use the upper guards.
A year ago another member lost a finger to the Grizzly saw.
The next meeting we (the club) re-investigated the Saw Stop system. We had thought about the Saw Stop previously but dismissed it due to cost.
Both of the injured people were doing something improper and not following proper safety protocols when their accidents occurred.
We raised the money for the saw from voluntary contributions fro our members in less than thirty days.
The membership decided that the human factor had to be taken out of the equation.
The saw itself is built like a brick outhouse. The trunnion assembly is very beefy to absorb the energy when the brake is activated.
We did have two incidents where the brake system activated for no apparent reason. Saw Stop had us sent the brake cartridge back both times and saw no reason why the system activated. Both times Saw Stop replaced the brake cartridges. The falsing was resolved when we drove in a new 8 foot ground rod near the electrical panel.
Saw Stop has been a first rate company to deal with and I will rate their customer service right up there with Shopsmith. They are courteous, knowledgeable and fast.
Whether the Saw Stop is right for you only you can answer. I know that for a club with 115 members it is the only choice because of the varying levels of experience of the members

Bill V

[Hobbyman2]

I wonder though if they don't provide a false sense of security.

I mean if you become use to being careless then sooner or later it could be possible to let your guard down on equipment that doesnt have the system.

I also think this should be mandatory in all schools.

Band saws are another finger losing machine,,,, that is where,,,,, IMO ,,,,,,shopsmith could excel in the competition, with one that some how disengages the power and stops the head stock.

Safety should never be second guessed , but neither should good shop safety practices.

JMO

Hobbyman

[masonsailor2]

I would agree that for a club and especially a school ( do they even have shop class in high school anymore ?)they would be a must have. I would have to check but for a commercial shop one might get a discount on the workers comp policy. In those cases the safety factor is too important. On a personal level we all have to make up our mind if we are ever going to violate the safety rules. If you do then a saw stop is a cheap investment compared to the cost of reattaching fingers. If you choose to never break the safety rules it is a moot point.
Paul

[Ed in Tampa]

First I think the concept of Saw Stop is a major safety advance.

The problem is the inventor, and the court that ruled against Bosch.

Capacitive sensing is used in nearly everything. Smart phones to microwaves.

Bosch used capacitive sensing in a totally unique way to protect the user. Yet the inventor of SawStop sued.
The court in my opinion was not technical enough to understand the differences in the way each carried out their methodology viewing the capacitive sensing as the common issue. Perhaps the maker of microwaves or smart phone should sue SawStop.

Frankly I believe the consumer should get involved and boycott SawStop until the courts provide a pathway that competitors can fairly compete on.

This whole issue further dims my already dark view of lawyers. Where has the moral compass gone in the judiciary arena?

[Gene Howe]

Saw a YouTube video some time ago where a "Blade Stop" system on a band saw was used in a meat cutting operation.
I don't seem to be able to post the link. Just search YouTube for Blade Stop.