MORE CONSIDERATIONS USUNG THE 2 1/2 " HOMEMADE DRUM SANDER FROM PAGE 227 & 228 OF PTWFE.
Just got back from hooking up the "shop vac" to clean up the mess that resulted from my test in the previous post. I was surprised to find 1,000s of scratches on the surface of my newly waxed and polished sawtable. I can see these when the light is right and can feel them with my finger tips. Can only surmise these were caused by the sanding dust (and the grit (100 grit) in the dust) as I repeatedly passed the workpiece through the sander.
The end result is - I am throwing the 2.5" drum in the trash! It's use is just not worth the heartache for me. Now onto polishing the sawtable with 800 grit and finer.
As for my test - at least we got another lesson at using the stop collar!
Why Didn't I Do This Before?
Moderator: admin
Way to go Chuck! (About the stop collar idea)
I hadn't thought about the use of collar under the carriage when I went out to look at it this afternoon.
Now that I see the picture I remember seeing that method used before, I think maybe somewhere off the yahoo user group page?? (As a side note: I think you will also find a few examples of home made drum sanders and maybe a few other people who have spent some time developing ways of doing this... check out the yahoo group if your really interested). Anyway this seems to be a good way to use the adj. collar for this application.
FYI read if you care to...
I have a real live drum sander and yes do they spit out the sawdust... when I first got mine I was in a hurry to try it so I ran it with out any dust collection... sawdust covered everything in site.
If the home made ones works like mine then the course abrasives can take off more i.e. a deeper setting, but as the grit gets finer the less you want to take off in one pass. Feed rates are more picky with finer sandpaper as well... I would guess if you actually stopped moving the workpiece it wouldn't take long to burn it. Sandpaper for mine goes from 24 grit to 220 grit and with finer gits you always have to watch for burnishing (shows up as a glossy surface on the wood). The height crank is the same sort of set up with a full turn being 1/16". With heavier grits I tend to go at 1/2 turn and on finer paper either a 1/4 or 1/8 turn.
As a general rule of thumb the 24 - 36 is used for abrasive planing/surfacing rough sawn boards and even glue removal. 60 - 80 can do some surfacing and dimensioning and things like removing the ripple left after planing. When you get to 150 grit you are in the finish sanding area and it is not for surfacing any more.
Drums on these machines get hot and are often made from extruded aluminum so that could also be an issue with home made ones..... And even the comercial ones warn you to stand to the side in case the part should slip on the converyer belt....
FYI over.
Chuck, sorry to hear about the fan blade. Is that a big job to change?
Ed
I hadn't thought about the use of collar under the carriage when I went out to look at it this afternoon.
Now that I see the picture I remember seeing that method used before, I think maybe somewhere off the yahoo user group page?? (As a side note: I think you will also find a few examples of home made drum sanders and maybe a few other people who have spent some time developing ways of doing this... check out the yahoo group if your really interested). Anyway this seems to be a good way to use the adj. collar for this application.
FYI read if you care to...
I have a real live drum sander and yes do they spit out the sawdust... when I first got mine I was in a hurry to try it so I ran it with out any dust collection... sawdust covered everything in site.
If the home made ones works like mine then the course abrasives can take off more i.e. a deeper setting, but as the grit gets finer the less you want to take off in one pass. Feed rates are more picky with finer sandpaper as well... I would guess if you actually stopped moving the workpiece it wouldn't take long to burn it. Sandpaper for mine goes from 24 grit to 220 grit and with finer gits you always have to watch for burnishing (shows up as a glossy surface on the wood). The height crank is the same sort of set up with a full turn being 1/16". With heavier grits I tend to go at 1/2 turn and on finer paper either a 1/4 or 1/8 turn.
As a general rule of thumb the 24 - 36 is used for abrasive planing/surfacing rough sawn boards and even glue removal. 60 - 80 can do some surfacing and dimensioning and things like removing the ripple left after planing. When you get to 150 grit you are in the finish sanding area and it is not for surfacing any more.
Drums on these machines get hot and are often made from extruded aluminum so that could also be an issue with home made ones..... And even the comercial ones warn you to stand to the side in case the part should slip on the converyer belt....
FYI over.
Chuck, sorry to hear about the fan blade. Is that a big job to change?
Ed
Don't think the fan blade will be a big job. I've had the DC 3300 apart several times for cleaning and of course had to assemble it when it came. Looks like the inside housing will seperate fairly easily. Anyway to fan blade comes with instructions and it is one of the most ordered replacements so many of them have been changed. I was surprised at how small the chunk of wood doing the dammage was. 1/2 by 1/2 by 1 inch long. Guess I've been lucky in the past sucking up such small pieces. Yesterday I cleaned out the 3300 and it really worked good - maybe too good!
Enough of that! - - Back to the homemade 2 1/2 inch thickness sander.
Just reviewed the PTWFE Page 228. There is bold print warning not to remove over 1/64 inch in any pass. I was not aware of that ('cause it didn't sink in) until just now. Well, That is the maximum amount I could take with any confidence in holding down the workpiece anyway. A person just can't adjust the worktable in increments of 1/64 inch (or less)without the use of a stop collar.
It took me a long time to sand down 1/16 inch with 5 passes for each movement of the stop collar. With the setup and everything else, I was in the shop for 1.5 hours. Time went fast however and I had fun (always do in the shop) trying out this thickness sanding again.
I think now - if I didn't have a thickness planer - I'd go back to what I used to use - a hand held belt sander and a random orbital one to finish.
Enough of that! - - Back to the homemade 2 1/2 inch thickness sander.
Just reviewed the PTWFE Page 228. There is bold print warning not to remove over 1/64 inch in any pass. I was not aware of that ('cause it didn't sink in) until just now. Well, That is the maximum amount I could take with any confidence in holding down the workpiece anyway. A person just can't adjust the worktable in increments of 1/64 inch (or less)without the use of a stop collar.
It took me a long time to sand down 1/16 inch with 5 passes for each movement of the stop collar. With the setup and everything else, I was in the shop for 1.5 hours. Time went fast however and I had fun (always do in the shop) trying out this thickness sanding again.
I think now - if I didn't have a thickness planer - I'd go back to what I used to use - a hand held belt sander and a random orbital one to finish.
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
I was wrong about the tips page being missing...... found that it is tip #6. The information looks like what is in the current book.
In case you are not up to date on where the find the tips:
http://www.woodshoptips.com/tips/index.htm
This is a shopsmith page, not sure why the woodshoptips rather then shopsmith http address????
Sorry about the mis-information but at least it has been found and those without the book can take a look at it.
Ed
In case you are not up to date on where the find the tips:
http://www.woodshoptips.com/tips/index.htm
This is a shopsmith page, not sure why the woodshoptips rather then shopsmith http address????
Sorry about the mis-information but at least it has been found and those without the book can take a look at it.
Ed
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Ed in Tampa
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Ed in Tampa
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- Posts: 5834
- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:45 am
- Location: North Tampa Bay area Florida
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edflorence
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- Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:14 pm
- Location: Idaho Panhandle
Hi All...
Sorry to be jumping back into this discussion late, but I didn't have a chance to get into the shop until this morning. When I did, I took a look at the table/carriage on my MkV 500 and found that, sure enough, the stop collar prevents the table from dropping low enough to accomodate the disk sander if the stop collar is installed per instructions. The stop collar is a much more recent addition to my SS than the lathe-mounted sanding drum, so that was not issue back when I was using the drum. No problem though if the stop collar is put on below the carriage. That is a GREAT idea!
I took a look at Tip #6 and I see the advice to sand no more than 1/64 at a time. Looking at the Tip also reminded me that I actually did use the 3" drum for thicknessing last year. I had three slats of mahogany about 1 1/2 wide and a bit over 1/8 thick that I needed to bring to exactly 1/8. I set the SS in the drill press mode and and passed the slats between the drum and the rip fence, as illustrated in the Tip. This illustration is Figure 17-10 in my edition of PTWFE. It worked perfectly, although I think the operation would have benefited from having some sort of "micro-adjuster" on the fence, to serve the same purpose as the stop collar does when the table is used in the horizontal mode. Now that I think about it, I bet I could rig up something using my old Incra Jig. In any event, I was able to get the pieces trued up to a constant thickness without any trouble.
An advantage to using the drum sander in the vertical mode is that it then becomes easy to deal with the clouds of sawdust by using the Shaper/Drum Sander Vacuum Attachment (Part 555168). I installed this in the table, hooked up the DC 3300 and had very little dust escape. It worked great.
Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV 500
Sorry to be jumping back into this discussion late, but I didn't have a chance to get into the shop until this morning. When I did, I took a look at the table/carriage on my MkV 500 and found that, sure enough, the stop collar prevents the table from dropping low enough to accomodate the disk sander if the stop collar is installed per instructions. The stop collar is a much more recent addition to my SS than the lathe-mounted sanding drum, so that was not issue back when I was using the drum. No problem though if the stop collar is put on below the carriage. That is a GREAT idea!
I took a look at Tip #6 and I see the advice to sand no more than 1/64 at a time. Looking at the Tip also reminded me that I actually did use the 3" drum for thicknessing last year. I had three slats of mahogany about 1 1/2 wide and a bit over 1/8 thick that I needed to bring to exactly 1/8. I set the SS in the drill press mode and and passed the slats between the drum and the rip fence, as illustrated in the Tip. This illustration is Figure 17-10 in my edition of PTWFE. It worked perfectly, although I think the operation would have benefited from having some sort of "micro-adjuster" on the fence, to serve the same purpose as the stop collar does when the table is used in the horizontal mode. Now that I think about it, I bet I could rig up something using my old Incra Jig. In any event, I was able to get the pieces trued up to a constant thickness without any trouble.
An advantage to using the drum sander in the vertical mode is that it then becomes easy to deal with the clouds of sawdust by using the Shaper/Drum Sander Vacuum Attachment (Part 555168). I installed this in the table, hooked up the DC 3300 and had very little dust escape. It worked great.
Ed
Idaho Panhandle
MkV 500
Hey Ed
I think you will find the stop collar will work the same way in the drill press mode.... micro moving the table with fence attached........ right?
Do you have one of the old incra jig shopsmith once carried... gray plastic thing? If so me too. They must date back to the late 80's or early 90's, I had mine out last summer and was using it, it still works fine!!.
Ed
I think you will find the stop collar will work the same way in the drill press mode.... micro moving the table with fence attached........ right?
Do you have one of the old incra jig shopsmith once carried... gray plastic thing? If so me too. They must date back to the late 80's or early 90's, I had mine out last summer and was using it, it still works fine!!.
Ed