rip width deadzone

[garys]

25 years places thine having a 90's birthday. Did you get the wide aux table with it?

I don't have that table anymore so I can't measure it. My Shopsmith was a 1983 model 500 that I eventually upgraded to 510 so I can't measure it anymore.
Whatever it was, it worked great just like Shopsmith made it to work.

[JPG]

25 years places thine having a 90's birthday. Did you get the wide aux table with it?

I don't have that table anymore so I can't measure it. My Shopsmith was a 1983 model 500 that I eventually upgraded to 510 so I can't measure it anymore.
Whatever it was, it worked great just like Shopsmith made it to work.

I am guessing you did not also have the second slot. I also assume that you had to have the wide aux table since without that table bridging the tables is unlikely to be successful(i.e. it would not have been made to work).

I was seeking verification of all that guessing and assuming.

IIWM. I would have kept that 500 aux table for use on the left side.

Yes I am a bit like Farmer - once a resident here, likely to remain until HFO.

[edflorence]

This subject of how to rip wide boards on an old Shopsmith is always an interesting one. It got me thinking this morning, so I had a look back through my collection of PTWFE's to see what they had to say. It turns out that the question seems to have been pretty much ignored until the 5th edition. Prior to that edition (1984), the only use of the aux table for wide ripping was in connection with the taper jig. I may have missed something, as I skimmed through them pretty quickly, but that is what it looks like. In 1984 the solution given is the one Ed Reible has already mentioned, namely

"Keep in mind the extension table need not be in the same plane as the main
table. You can attach the rip fence to it and have it lower then the main
table so the main table slides over it right up to the rip fence."

That same edition also has a reminder that the quill feed can be used to make small adjustments to fit the width of the work.

I worked with my old 500 for years using only the original small auxiliary table and did successfully use the "two tables at different heights" trick when needed. Never really was a problem. Once I upgraded to the wider aux table the issue went away. The narrow table now resides to the left of the saw table, and, combined with front extension tables, makes the SS a very versatile table saw.

[robinson46176]

I was looking at a batch of my extension tables today trying to figure out the best way to store them. In the shop I have:
1 for my 510
1 wide one for the older Mark V
8 narrow ones for the older Mark V
2 of the "L" shaped ones for the old Mark VII
1 for the 10-ER
I may have a few more out in the farm shop or the grain bin I use for such stuff.

I don't bother keeping them with a certain SS's except by model. Even then some will interchange.
On the main tables and fences for the older Mark V's I painted parts of them like the bottom of the tables and the ends of the fences to match the SS's they belong with since they were carefully aligned to that particular SS and I wouldn't want to mix them.
I was looking at one older Mark V this week and having thoughts of adding a second carriage to it to mount a second table. I probably should just slap myself and move on but I'll look at it some more. It sticks in my head that someone here found a good use for that but I can't recall what or who...

Wood shop - Part of my Shopsmith extension tables.jpg (41.76 KiB) Viewed 16218 times

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[JPG]

Gotta say the sliding the aux table and fence under the main table does not provide a cure all.

Regardless of how you position the fence near the edge of the main table, you can only rip to approximately the width of the rip fence(the fence part) inside the table edge(even that is not a good practice IMO*).

When the aux table and fence are slid under the main table. the narrowest rip cut is limited by the outer edge of the main table. At best that still leaves a 1 5/16" dead zone(the width of the fence).

*All that also requires placing the rip fence on the main table rail with almost half of the rip fence registration surface OFF the rail(1 3/4").

*Never mentioned is that the fence registration surface is 3/4" wider than the aux table.

So, I believe the only acceptable methods are a second slot with the narrow aux table, or a wide aux table with the same rail dimensions as the main table that allows bridging the gap between the tables.

[reible]

Sorry but I don't have a 500 set up in saw mode in the shop right now. In fact I don't have an extension table here either, off site storage is another story.

So bear with me for these photos with the 500 table in drill press mode but I think you will be able to follow what I'm saying, or at least I hope so.

With the rip fence sitting on the table and in the right most location where the whole fence is with in the limits of the table like this:

20180324_190900_resized.jpg (172.37 KiB) Viewed 16192 times

This is a very conservative placement. One might feel brave and slide the fence even farther over so that the right side of the fence is even with the end of the table. I'm not sure if I'd go this far but perhaps some are more inclined to go that extra distance..... so here is a picture in that location:

20180324_190920_resized.jpg (188.31 KiB) Viewed 16192 times

For reference this places the left edge of the fence either 3-1/4" from the edge of the table or 1-3/8". Here is a piece of tape I put down and marked so I could measure those distances.

20180324_220048_resized.jpg (197.17 KiB) Viewed 16192 times

Now lets look at what would happen if the extension table were lowered and the fence attached to it. Here the left side of the fence is now past the main table give you the extra room by at least the width of the fence.

20180324_191028_resized.jpg (165.2 KiB) Viewed 16192 times

Now the other way to accomplish this would be to keep the main table and the extension table on the same level but add a "L" fence. Now you will have to use your imagination again because I'm showing you the "L" fence I use that allows the use of the upper guard when ripping narrow stock. And yes it is sitting on the main table rather then the extension table where it would be in a real application.

20180324_191113_resized.jpg (172.74 KiB) Viewed 16192 times

The leg of the "L" would be sized to what you need or want and could be wider then I have and still work for both applications.

Another jig might work depending on how wide the stock is. It is normally used to get a straight edge on stock but there is no reason why it would not work for other purposes. Note this works on the 500 because the sides of the table are smooth, not so on the 510/520 main table. How accurate would this be? Not sure but this is a jig I made many many years ago and have used a lot of times back when I just had the 500. I believe it is out of the book....

20180324_191430_resized.jpg (193 KiB) Viewed 16192 times

20180324_191441_resized.jpg (150.4 KiB) Viewed 16192 times

So I hope this helps.

Ed

[edflorence]

Another jig might work depending on how wide the stock is. It is normally used to get a straight edge on stock but there is no reason why it would not work for other purposes. Note this works on the 500 because the sides of the table are smooth, not so on the 510/520 main table. How accurate would this be? Not sure but this is a jig I made many many years ago and have used a lot of times back when I just had the 500. I believe it is out of the book....


So I hope this helps.

Ed

JPG is right...the whole issue is not fully discussed without taking into account the width of the fence. I just went and measured my old 1953 500 fence and found it to be 1 1/2 inches wide. Whether the fence is placed on the far right of the main table or the far left of the auxiliary table, as Ed's pictures illustrate clearly, there does indeed remain a "dead zone" of at least the fence width. I have been trying to remember how I used to deal with this issue and what I remember most clearly is what Ed demonstrates with the cleat. I believe this method is shown somewhere in PTWFE, and I do remember using it on more than one occasion.

There is another way, as well, to get around that deadzone to some degree. If the main table is slid all the way to the right and the auxiliary table then dropped down on top of it, a maximum of approximately 1 5/8 inches of the right edge of the main table can be covered. The left edge of the auxiliary table can then be used as a fence for "deadzone" widths in the area normally covered on the main table by the fence, provided the table is in alignment. I would check distances along the left edge of the table to the nearest miter gage slot to be sure. I can't honestly recall an instance of doing it this way, but I must have dredged the memory up from some where. In any event, this method will not work if the workpiece is thinner than 5/8, as the auxiliary table can not be lowered any closer than that to the main table. If the workpiece is thin, then any piece that needs a width that lands in the "deadzone" will need either the "L" shaped fence or a cleat as Ed shows.

[reible]

I never ran into this problem because I was one of the people with the two slots but the machines I got for my sons and my other machines are not so lucky.

The fence is not shown but is assumed to be to the right of the "L".

Without having hardware to measure I'm giving a WAG at the "L" fence length of 3-1/2". This should give more then enough room to mount the extension table away from the main table and cover the dead zone. Here is a sketchup look at it:

ScreenHunter 35.jpg (34.64 KiB) Viewed 16140 times

You may need more height and if so one possible way would be to stack some additional pieces on up to the height you need. Here is a look at a double high and a triple high. The design assumes you only need fasteners through the fence but other designs you might want to try could have access from both sides(think of a screw from the far side of the fence in the drawing). Other options exist.

ScreenHunter 36.jpg (38.88 KiB) Viewed 16140 times

Once it warms up I will build one to check out. I have a 500 in storage that I can test with.

Ed

[JPG]

If one mounts the fence at the center of the aux table, the overall width of the "L" (horizontal and vertical parts) needs to be at least 5" (also covers the 1 3/4" width of the aux table area to the left of the fence.

However with the fence centered on the aux table, the fence rail mount overhangs the table edges by about 3/8" and that may interfere with the main table, so maybe 5 3/8" overall is needed.

Maybe a 1x6 with a hook against the main table would take the place of the "L".

[reible]

I'm not seeing this. Perhaps you can "show your work". It might be we are saying pretty much the same thing but I'm allowing for the miter gauge to mount farther to the right then you are or ????

Ed

If one mounts the fence at the center of the aux table, the overall width of the "L" (horizontal and vertical parts) needs to be at least 5" (also covers the 1 3/4" width of the aux table area to the left of the fence.

However with the fence centered on the aux table, the fence rail mount overhangs the table edges by about 3/8" and that may interfere with the main table, so maybe 5 3/8" overall is needed.

Maybe a 1x6 with a hook against the main table would take the place of the "L".