serial numbers

[jsburger]

marcp1956 wrote

I found a copy of Skips data, but not from his site. Would you please post a link to his data. My 10ER serial number is R-63817. Looking at Skip's old chart I'm concluding a manufacture date late '52 and made in San Francisco, am I correct?

That should be pretty close. Sorry I did not answer your question before.

Putting dates to the Serial Numbers for the Model 10E and 10ER is difficult. Most of what is known about when a machine with a certain S/N was made has come in bits and pieces. We know the first 250 10E's were shipped to Montgomery Ward Stores on the west coast 71 years ago in 2 days. That is our starting point. All other dates for the most part come from paperwork that has survived the years in the form of sales receipts. Bruce just added to that the other day with his find of the dated sales receipt for S/N R34916 on 10-10-50. Skip Campbell has compiled most of that information for us but it is a difficult task. From his list gathering information on the Model 10's that Everett edited there are only 11 dated machines. Adding to that difficulty was the use of the prefix letters in the serial numbers. The east and west plants used the same serial numbers with their prefix but not at the same speed. You cannot simply say that because R34916 was purchased on 10-10-50 that ER34917 was made right after it. Serial Number R34916 and ER34917 may be several months apart. Anyone with an original dated sales slip for there Model 10 is encouraged to share that information here so we can continue to fill in the blanks.

Skip has not been updating his list. I know I have sent data and so have a few others I know of but it was never entered in the list. My guess is that there may have been others who I don't know about also submitted data but also never included. I also don't think that it ever will be. Anyway we did have a pretty good list from Skip so far as it goes.

Ed

True. The info on my first 10ER I sent to Skip was added. The other four I sent were never added. That was 4 or 5 years ago.

[chapmanruss]

Keeping a list of all known Model 10's would be an enormous task but I would be willing to maintain list of Model 10E's and 10ER's with known purchase dates such as a sales receipt. An update could be posted here from time to time as a PDF when new information is added. That would allow others to "date" their machines. I recommend wax and oil instead of candy and flowers.

[jsburger]

Keeping a list of all known Model 10's would be an enormous task but I would be willing to maintain list of Model 10E's and 10ER's with known purchase dates such as a sales receipt. An update could be posted here from time to time as a PDF when new information is added. That would allow others to "date" their machines. I recommend wax and oil instead of candy and flowers.

I think original sales receipts are few and far between. If you are willing to update Skip's list then any serial number would be helpful. Occasionally a sales receipt might show up to validate the dates.

I will certainly provide you with the 4 S/N I have that are not on Skip's list.

[csxeng]

I would like to jump on board with this one. My 10ER was built in September of 1949 and I have the original owners name and address. It would be really cool to keep adding to the list. We had the same situation on a mustang web site with matching a VIN number to actual production dates. This was for the Hi Performance 289 "K" code engines only. The challenge makes it very interesting!!
Dave V.

[chapmanruss]

Although it might be nice to have available, I do not want to take on a list of all known Model 10's at this time. As I said before it would be a large task to handle. It may be why Skip stopped adding to his list that Everett modified and posted on his google drive. That list has around 470 machines listed on it. I have a list I started sometime back that has 300 listed on it. Mostly seen for sale in ads online where I can identify the S/N or ones I have personally seen. Some have information similar to Skip's list. I have S/N, last location, Headstock, Base, headrest, tailstock, ext. table, fence, blade guard, lathe arm, belt cover and trunnion versions. I picked these things to "catalog" since most are easy to see in pictures of the machine. They help define when changes were made. Of course upgrades did occur so following trends is the best way to tell the changes. Add to this the few dates we have on machines and we can approximate dates of changes. I own or have owned a total of 22 Model 10's from S/N 1077 to 76928. With that I have had 7 versions of the headstock and I know from recent posts that one headstock from the Australian Model 10 is different than those 7. Plus there is the pre-production headstock Everett has documented and seen. Some of these changes are very important to know when looking for replacement parts. It would not be good to order a keyed double wedge quill lock when your headstock has the single wedge lock.

I am willing to maintain a list of purchase dates with serial numbers we can use as a reference. Dave if you would like to add yours to that list I would need the S/N. Please include any letter prefix, E, ER, R or A.

[shadowddragon]

where can i get a copy of skips chart / data?

[jsburger]

where can i get a copy of skips chart / data?

Right here.

[everettdavis]

Then there is the new one we discussed starting back in 2017 where I took Skip's data compiled almost a decade ago and added some additional information fields that we gleaned through the years.

I approached Skip for his permission to pursue this but wasn't personally able to undertake it myself.

Obviously additional machines have been found through the years. I never heard back from Skip.

See what you think of the attached enhanced data format?

I might reconsider the project using Shopsmith Historian as a vehicle.

I would require the new format for all submissions and I would require a serial number photo of the entire badge with each submission.

Don't send anything yet. It is highly likely that some of these machines have been sold to others during the years.

My 5 are added to the list in the attached PDF.

Everett

Skip Campbells 10E - 10ER survey by Serial V1.01 modified by Everett L Davis.pdf

(720.89 KiB) Downloaded 1320 times

[jsburger]

Then there is the new one we discussed starting back in 2017 where I took Skip's data compiled almost a decade ago and added some additional information fields that we gleaned through the years.

I approached Skip for his permission to pursue this but wasn't personally able to undertake it myself.

Obviously additional machines have been found through the years. I never heard back from Skip.

See what you think of the attached enhanced data format?

I might reconsider the project using Shopsmith Historian as a vehicle.

I would require the new format for all submissions and I would require a serial number photo of the entire badge with each submission.

Don't send anything yet. It is highly likely that some of these machines have been sold to others during the years.

My 5 are added to the list in the attached PDF.

Everett
Skip Campbells 10E - 10ER survey by Serial V1.01 modified by Everett L Davis.pdf

I like it. I hope you decide to continue this effort. It could also be included as an appendix in your upcoming book.

[everettdavis]

Then there is the new one we discussed starting back in 2017 where I took Skip's data compiled almost a decade ago and added some additional information fields that we gleaned through the years.

I approached Skip for his permission to pursue this but wasn't personally able to undertake it myself.

Obviously additional machines have been found through the years. I never heard back from Skip.

See what you think of the attached enhanced data format?

I might reconsider the project using Shopsmith Historian as a vehicle.

I would require the new format for all submissions and I would require a serial number photo of the entire badge with each submission.

Don't send anything yet. It is highly likely that some of these machines have been sold to others during the years.

My 5 are added to the list in the attached PDF.

Everett
Skip Campbells 10E - 10ER survey by Serial V1.01 modified by Everett L Davis.pdf

I like it. I hope you decide to continue this effort. It could also be included as an appendix in your upcoming book.

Woke up to wind blowing as a storm moves through the area and decided to read a bit before going back to bed.

John, I am seriously Thinking about taking the project on and I will be reaching out to some of the folks like yourself, who work restoring the 10E / 10ER family to find what else we can collect and use before I undertake it.

I have even thought of a new category for the machine disposition such as Restored, Pending Restoration, Parted Out. I for one would like to know what machines had donor cards so to speak just to know they were out there. That may be a tough one, since eBay salvage sellers likely will not contribute much unless it is a forum member.

I know some of us want to save every machine we can, but to do that, we need a vibrant and active used parts distribution network to find the tough bits and pieces.

If I do this, it will be my way or the highway for submitter.

No two way correspondence etc.

I will require a photo of the badge with legible serial number, and a single photo showing the entire machine left to right. Believe it or not, some folk try to game you and report things they don't have. I don't know why that is true, but it happens.

There will be a document explaining how to fill out a submission and where to email it. It will not be submitted in the Shopsmith Forums, and the results of the registry will be published on My Google Drive.

If they comply, their machine will show up. If not, no action will be taken due to time constraints.

Thoughts?

Everett