Wiring difficulties with single phase GE motor

[Mjrinor]

JPG,

Thank you so much for your help in troubleshooting this issue, it is much appreciated!

I did replace the capacitor and will include a pic of the old and new one just to make sure that's not the issue.

In pic 1, labeled: "switch wires" I've got arrows pointing to the white and black wires coming from the switch. The black is connected to line 1, the white is connected to line 4.

In pic 2, labeled " underside of electrical board"- there is an arrow pointing to the white wire from the winding, which would be installed on the post in line 4. The black wire coming (which is all black in heat shrink) from the winding would be installed on the post in line 1. There is an all red wire that is going from the winding to the capacitor. There is a red wire (with some black electrical tape) that is soldered to the top on the electrical board on one of the brass rivets attaching the copper "c" to the electrical board (this will be made more visible in another pic) near line 1- this wire is not part of the windings, and is headed to the capacitor.

In pic 3, labeled "brass rivets"- the brass rivets that attach the copper "c" are shown on the top of the electrical board. The red wire with some electrical tape (that is not part of the winding) is soldered to one of these brass rivets- and the red wire goes to the capacitor.

In pic 4, labeled "capacitor"- the old and the new capacitors.

I'm sorry my terminology isn't likely correct, but I hope these pictures help illustrate what I'm talking about. Please let me know if further pictures, or information would help and I will happily provide whatever is needed.

Again, thank you for your help!

[JPG]

I apologize for not being able to respond lately. Will do so later after absorbing your input.

[Mjrinor]

Dear JPG,

Please, no apologies- take you're time, your time/effort and thought are much appreciated! Thank you for posting that you'd take a look at this and give it some thought before posting.

I have been in contact with another of the forum members about this issue and trying to troubleshoot, and I realize there is more information I need to provide.

I completely removed the additional switch that was meant to make the machine go in reverse- so now there is only an on/off toggle switch. I am now fairly certain(as a result of the kind forum member I'm in touch with) that I made a mistake with the switch wiring. I will be posting a picture of the hook up I made with the on/off toggle switch.

I purchased a new power cord that has 3 wires, black, white and green. I took the black wire from the powercord, and inserted it onto one of the blades on the back of the switch that had a brass/copper rivet/connection (usually with electrical, black gets connected with brass/copper connections, and white goes to silver). I took the white wire from the powercord, and slipped it onto the silver spade on the back of the switch (directly below the black wire from the powercord).

Connection from switch to motor:
I took a white wire and a black wire that were meant to connect from the switch to the motor. The black wire was connected to the copper/brass blade on the back of the switch, and the other end was connected to the motor's electrical board at line 1 (where the motor's black wire is anchored). The white wire was connected directly underneath the black wire on the remaining spade with a silver connector. I'm fairly certain this is incorrect now- so I need to straighten that out.

I'm still unsure about the placement of one of the wires that appears to be coming out of the windings. It has a small amount of red near the base, but is mostly colored black and was soldered to the bottom of the copper post in line 4, which is also where the white wire from the motor was being attached (I also had the white wire that went from the switch to the motor on that post as well, but I now believe that is incorrect placement). Do you think this is correct?

Finally, I also want to confirm that the small section of red wire (which has black electrical tape at the base of one end) where one end was soldered to a brass rivet holding the copper metal "C" to the motor's electrical board. The other end is attached to the capacitor blade. Does this seem right?

I know I have pictures included, but I may try to draw a schematic (with my layman's terms) to show the connections as it might be a bit easier to figure out that way. I think I will draw it up with some of the new information the other forum member has shared to try to start clearing this up.

Thanks again for giving it consideration!

[chapmanruss]

The switch in your picture above look like it has 6 conductors. Is that correct? If so it is a Double Pole Double Throw or DPDT Switch. Most of these have a center off position, I use Single Pole Double Throw or SPDT Switches (4 conductors) for replacements on my Model 10 restorations. I will do the same when I restore my Mark 2. A Single Pole Single Throw or SPST Switch will work and you connect only the black wires to the two conductors on the switch. If it has 6 conductors on the switch you are using it looks like two of the wires each connect to two conductors. Gennerally DPDT and DPST switches work so that the supply wires connect to the center conductors and the output wires connect to the end conductors. The DPST switch will have only one pair of output connectors on one end. The black (hot) wires should connect to one side of the switch and the white (neutral) wires to the other side of the switch. If the switch you have works this way, and I suspect it does, connecting it to power and switching it on will cause a direct short and trip the circuit breaker since you have the black and white leads from the power cord (supply) on the same side of the switch. You can use a test meter to check for the correct terminals to use.

[JPG]

Reverse the black power cord wire and the white motor wire on the power switch.

In the motor:
The black power cord wire and the black winding wire should be connected to terminal 1

The white power cord wire and the white winding wire should be connected to terminal 4.

The two red wires from the windings should connect as follows. One should be connected to the capacitor. The other is(IIUC) connected to terminal 4 on the back side of the board.*

IIUC a third red wire connects the "C"(start switch terminal) to the other capacitor terminal.

There is I believe an internal connection between the other side of the start switch and terminal 1.

* I am concerned about that as the wire appears black in the pix. Where does that wire actually go?

[Mjrinor]

Dear Russ and JPG,

Thank you both for kindly reviewing these posts and offering your insights- they are very much appreciated!!!

Russ- thank you for pointing out the issue with the wiring of the toggle switch. What I've learned from this is that the way toggle switches are wired is different from the way switches/outlets are wired. Switches/outlets are "left to right"- meaning a set of wires coming in get wired on the left side (black goes to the gold screw, and white to the silver screw)- wires leaving that switch/outlet will be wired on the right (same orientation black to hold, white to silver). Toggle switches are not "left to right", they are oriented "top to bottom"- one set of incoming wires going into the top 2 blades, and the wires leaving will be on the bottom 2 blades - ensuring that the blacks from both wires are on one side( let's say the left), and the whites are on the right. Im writing some of my learning points out so that a hopefully someone else who is trying to figure this out will learn from it.

Here is a pictorial I drew in an effort to show all of the aspects of wiring on one page with explanations. This is the picture with all of the learning points illustrated (for example, the toggle switch wiring should be correct).

JPG- in your most recent post you wrote:
"The two red wires from the windings should connect as follows. One should be connected to the capacitor. The other is(IIUC) connected to terminal 4 on the back side of the board.*"
[At the end of your post it says:]
"* I am concerned about that as the wire appears black in the pix. Where does that wire actually go?"

I get that the all red wire from the windings goes to the capacitor. You then say the other wire (which i think would be the other wire from the winding that starts off red- but is mostly colored black) is (IIUC) and is connected to terminal 4 on the back side of the board. It seems like you identify the wire I was concerned about, and point out where it should go (or maybe more precisely, that the location of this wire was correct, as that was where it was when I opened it up). But then you've got the astrix that says your concerned about the wire being black and you ask where it goes. I'm sorry for being confused by this- it seems like you give instruction/identify the correct placement, but then the comment with the astrix seems to call that previous instruction into question. I've read it several times and that is the only question I have remaining.

It seems like we're nearly at the finish line for solving this wiring issue- just one wire orientation to confirm with JPG.

Russ and JPG have asked for multimeter readings, and I do not have a multimeter, but I would be happy to purchase one if need be. I understand they can really range in price, as I'm sure is more functionality with the more expensive models. If a multimeter is necessary, can I buy a cheap one- will it do the job? Is there any sort of specific function I would need to ensure it has (before buying it) that would be necessary to get the readings you guys are requesting?

Once again, wanting to send out a big thank you to all forum members who have taken their time to review this issue. You have provided invaluable information and I have learned a great deal from this. Thank you all!!!

[JPG]

LOOKSGOOD!!!!!!!

[Mjrinor]

[Had excitedly waited to hear back from JPG for confirmation this wiring was going to be correct.......]

[Runs out to shop, motor wired up per instructions, with great anticipation, the toggle switch is flipped- motor clicks on, shaft starts spinning]........

YES, YES, YES!!!!!! IT WORKS!!!! IT WORKS!!!!!!

[some excited expletives.... looking to the sky with hands held wide and high in awe, a couple of slow head shakes in disbelief......then, a couple of tiger woods jumps with the air fist pumps....-considers a celebratory a lap around the block to share the victory/ tell the neighborhood, but then reasonably thinks- not with this back....]

[the sounds of that motor is music to my ears...... I could listen to her sweet song for hours....

[flips toggle switch off, back to silence.....apprehensively about to try the toggle for the second time.........will it fire off consistently, or was that just a fluke?..........

[flips toggle on once more - an energetic swish, she starts again!!!!!]

YES! YES! YES!!!!!

[runs in to share the news]

Victory Speech

First, I'd like to thank shopsmith for providing this forum. I found some really kind, knowledgeable and and helpful people. I'd like to say I am incredibly grateful for the people on this forum who helped me with these questions on wiring. Multiple members reached out and helped in different ways, and I was provided invaluable advice. I was absolutely green in motor wiring - and you helped this newbie student pull it off. I can't wait to get this thing put back together so I can try it out. Again, big thank you to all- I look forward to participating in this forum with these talented and generous people!!

[....championship t-shirts are in-process for this team....]

[Mjrinor]

JPG-

I had one more question I think you can probably speak to. I lost one of the plates for the motor that gets screwed onto the end cap- I'm including a picture. I cut one out of a thin piece of stainless steel as a patch. Is this a reasonable substitute? I imagine it would be hard to find a replacement.

[Mjrinor]

Here's the pic....