Maint. Time

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:32 pm

I clean, lube and wax my 500 often. Now this time, since I recently received the dial set Gage (sorry Il. Ed). I'm going to align everything, front to back and side to side on the table top, miter slots to the saw blade, fence to the slots. When that's all done and I'm happy with it. I'll check out the band saw and jointer. Any thoughts or advice?

tdubnik · Post by **tdubnik** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:19 pm

When I received my dial gage I was somewhat dishartened when I found out that my saw blades were showing 6 to 12 thousandths of run out. The best was a Forrest blade which showed .006. There seems to be nothing that I can do to get a "perfect" glue joint on a rip cut. I checked 5 different arbors and they all exhibit this run out problem.

I was able to improve my cuts but not to the point that I had hoped.

I hope your experience is a little better.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:50 pm

tdubnik wrote:When I received my dial gage I was somewhat dishartened when I found out that my saw blades were showing 6 to 12 thousandths of run out. The best was a Forrest blade which showed .006. There seems to be nothing that I can do to get a "perfect" glue joint on a rip cut. I checked 5 different arbors and they all exhibit this run out problem.

I was able to improve my cuts but not to the point that I had hoped.

I hope your experience is a little better.

A person just CAN'T saw a PERFECT glue joint. There is no such thing! Yes, it is possible to saw an O.K. glue joint if everything is running just right, but in order to get a perfect glue joint, he will need to use a jointer, better yet a hand plane, or still better - a thickness planer.

reible · Post by **reible** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:08 am

Hi,

Couldn't miss my name above so I figured maybe some of you might like to see at least a few of the things that have transpired here on the forum in the past:

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=8764
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=1419
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=790
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=1466
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=6177

If nothing else you may pick up on the trend of most of my posts... I'm sure if I were to search even more I'd find even more.

So after the alignment is done and you have finished the job how about a nice honest review of what you found.

Ed

BigSky · Post by **BigSky** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:50 am

A nice honest review is just a statement of still another persons opinion.

I have read all of these threads and I am still as confused about what everyone thinks is good and what is not as I was before I began reading. Is the instrument considered to be good or is it not. Everyone reports some deviation in the readings but is that not to be expected. The deviations tend to be in the thousandths. A cut that is accurate to .003" (or even .012") is pretty close at least for me.

About the only thing I have learned is that when cutting up 2x4s I probably don't need a dial indicator. When cutting trim molding I have to be a bit more careful. Decisions, decisions....

BigSky · Post by **BigSky** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:39 am

A lot has been written here about "Sloppy Miter Tracks and Bars" so I took some comfort in reading this advertisement by Rockler. At least we can conclude from this ad that the problem involves more than just Shopsmith. Other manufacturers seem to have the same problem.
Why? Because Rockler doesn't offer items specialized for us.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2355

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:42 am

tdubnik wrote:When I received my dial gage I was somewhat dishartened when I found out that my saw blades were showing 6 to 12 thousandths of run out. The best was a Forrest blade which showed .006. There seems to be nothing that I can do to get a "perfect" glue joint on a rip cut. I checked 5 different arbors and they all exhibit this run out problem.

I was able to improve my cuts but not to the point that I had hoped.

I hope your experience is a little better.

Don't make yourself crazy with this!!!!!!! A blade that is 6 or even 12 thousandths out can be perfect when it is spinning at 3000 rpm. Gyroscopic/centrifugal force action will draw that blade to near perfection.

Now add to that blade technology where they are able to achieve near perfect balance in the blade and you have a eliminated most if not all of the runout.

On the opposite end of the scale think! You must consider all the inconsistencies that occur in wood that will cause a blade to deflect ever so slightly. Difference in density, grain, minute foreign particles and etc all make a blade deflect slightly. A perfect zero run out blade will still deflect sightly in various directions as it cuts, add to this different feed speeds, power fluctuations, actual tool alignment, feed styles where wood can drift from the fence, the use or not of featherboard/holdowns. I have seen videos of a board being passed by the blade in slow motion, you could see it moving up and down and side to side slightly.

So all of this talk about wood working in thousandths while entertaining to talk about is only useful in giving us something to do when we aren't building.
My opinion!!!!

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:00 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote: So all of this talk about wood working in thousandths while entertaining to talk about is only useful in giving us something to do when we aren't building.
My opinion!!!!

Uh-Huh Uh-Huh However there is nada wrong with starting with a near perfect setup and letting all those other causes of 'imperfection' be as near minimal as possible. Only one of those we have any control of is feed technique.

reible · Post by **reible** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:05 pm

If you have been reading other threads here you might have noticed this before, so for the sake of completeness I will again point the way to this site:
http://www.mastergauge.com/
The click on the "super bar"

I don't yet have this but it is on my wish list, I do happen to have some other items from them and so far I really like their products.

Please also keep in mind the shopsmith bar is made .004" undersized and I have done an inch by inch measurement of my miter slot and found that .003"-.004" is normal and have at least one area where it is .008". The longer miter bar on the miter gauge address some of this issue but the short bar is more likely to be effected.

Ed

markfive510 wrote:A lot has been written here about "Sloppy Miter Tracks and Bars" so I took some comfort in reading this advertisement by Rockler. At least we can conclude from this ad that the problem involves more than just Shopsmith. Other manufacturers seem to have the same problem.
Why? Because Rockler doesn't offer items specialized for us.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2355

reible · Post by **reible** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Gee how I wish your first statement was true... The problem is we have and an expert here whos word is often taken for perhaps a bit more then that. So people tend to value his word and not say what they really feel but feel they must comply... so let it be said so let it be done. I am not one of those people, I might be right or I might be wrong but I don't give anyone or tool a free pass. Since you don't pay a cent for it you get what you pay for. I'd like it better if everyone did this... now don't get me wrong we have several people that do this, and no dispersions on anyone especial the person who started the thread, I just want to keep people honest... If you try the setup tool and love it say so, if how ever it isn't so great then I think that should be said as well.

I respect the opinions of lot of other people here, if one of them says they find this "xyz" item useful then that is a big plus for the "xyz" item. However if I get the "xyz" tool and find I don't like it I reserve the right to post my take on it. Those who take my advice and buy something should be honest if they are not happy with it. We are not all going to agree on anything and that is fine, these are not battles and winning is not everything.

I'm at the age I've become opininated and perhaps a bit set in my ways, I discoverd that about myself and I'm starting to rethink things like saw blade stablizers... I've voted them down a LOT and maybe that wasn't right to do. So I'm still open to learning, just be honest with me (us) when you review things... and to me it is not just an opinion, it is an opinion of someone who matters as a fellow shopsmith person.

OK enough on this.

Ed

[quote="markfive510"]A nice honest review is just a statement of still another persons opinion.

I have read all of these threads and I am still as confused about what everyone thinks is good and what is not as I was before I began reading. Is the instrument considered to be good or is it not. Everyone reports some deviation in the readings but is that not to be expected. The deviations tend to be in the thousandths. A cut that is accurate to .003" (or even .012") is pretty close at least for me.

About the only thing I have learned is that when cutting up 2x4s I probably don't need a dial indicator. When cutting trim molding I have to be a bit more careful. Decisions, decisions....]

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