How much power should I expect?

[jsburger]

Motors stall(100% rotating field slip).

Belts slip.

If stalling, the motor and belts stop.

If slipping, the motor runs and the belt may stop.(depends on what pulley the belt is slipping on.

#16 - OMG low cord power.

That is certainly part of the problem. Also I believe HopefulSSer said he is on a 15A circuit with 40+ feet of 14 gauge wire from the panel. We all say extension cords are bad. How is an extension cord any different from the wiring in the wall? I have one of my Shopsmiths plugged into a 20A circuit with 12 gauge wire about 10' from the panel. If I moved it to the other end of the shop with a 40' 12 gauge extension cord ( the shop is 30' X 40' ) every one would cry foul. However if I moved it to the other end of the shop and plugged it directly in to the outlet there (40'+ of 12 gauge wire in the wall) nobody would even think that is a problem.

HopefulSSer said he has 40+ feet of 14 gauge wire in the wall from the panel to his SS. I suggest plugging it into a 20A circuit with 12 gauge wire and see if there is a difference.

Having said all of that IMO the blade is the biggest culprit.

BTW, all the extension cords in my shop are 12 gauge.

[RFGuy]

That is certainly part of the problem. Also I believe HopefulSSer said he is on a 15A circuit with 40+ feet of 14 gauge wire from the panel. We all say extension cords are bad. How is an extension cord any different from the wiring in the wall? I have one of my Shopsmiths plugged into a 20A circuit with 12 gauge wire about 10' from the panel. If I moved it to the other end of the shop with a 40' 12 gauge extension cord ( the shop is 30' X 40' ) every one would cry foul. However if I moved it to the other end of the shop and plugged it directly in to the outlet there (40'+ of 12 gauge wire in the wall) nobody would even think that is a problem.

HopefulSSer said he has 40+ feet of 14 gauge wire in the wall from the panel to his SS. I suggest plugging it into a 20A circuit with 12 gauge wire and see if there is a difference.

Having said all of that IMO the blade is the biggest culprit.

BTW, all the extension cords in my shop are 12 gauge.

John,

Thanks. I agree with you. I know I am relatively new to the forum, so I don't have the history for why extension cords keep getting brought up on these threads. To a 1st order approximation, your example is exactly right and there should be no difference between the solid wire in the wall and the stranded wire in the extension cord. Distance from breaker is distance from breaker. Presumably Shopsmith owners keep using undersized extension cables and/or rewiring a headstock with the wrong gauge wire, because this keeps coming up on the forum again and again. One advantage that solid wire in the wall has is that it is fixed and immobile. With proper terminations, no wire damage and a good receptacle outlet, any reasonable length of in the wall wiring should not affect Shopsmith equipment that much. Sure there would be a small amount of voltage drop due to the wire resistance, but it should be well behaved. Where extension cords differ to me, is that they are stranded wire. So, even for identical wire gauges, stranded will always have less current capacity than a solid wire due to the greater surface area in the individual strands of wire, being thinner and having more air gaps. In addition, extension cables are prone to being abused and any damage to the cable along its length can result in pockets of high resistance. Is there some other logic behind why extension cords are the #1 culprit suspected when a Shopsmith machine loses power during cutting by forum members here?

[edma194]

Stranded wires have the same cross sectional area as solid for a particular AWG. Any lack of current issue would be from using under-rated cords. Voltage drops over distance have some effect also. It would be rare to have 100 feet of solid wire running from the breaker to the outlet in a house but people readily add another 100 feet of extension cord to the circuit which will result in some voltage loss, but nothing all that dramatic I think.

[DLB]

Stranded wires have the same cross sectional area as solid for a particular AWG. Any lack of current issue would be from using under-rated cords. Voltage drops over distance have some effect also. It would be rare to have 100 feet of solid wire running from the breaker to the outlet in a house but people readily add another 100 feet of extension cord to the circuit which will result in some voltage loss, but nothing all that dramatic I think.

I don't think 100' total runs in a house are unusual these days, at least not in areas where ranch style houses are common. My panel is on the outside corner of a three-car (allegedly) garage, close to 40' just to get to the house.

- David

[RFGuy]

I don't think 100' total runs in a house are unusual these days, at least not in areas where ranch style houses are common. My panel is on the outside corner of a three-car (allegedly) garage, close to 40' just to get to the house.

- David

I agree. Houses are much larger today than they were in the past so a 100' run can be common. In addition to this, oftentimes a workshop might be in a shed or detached building that is farther away from the panel. A 100' run of 12AWG is only going to lose 2.9V off of 120V in this scenario (4.6V off of 14AWG). Yet extension cables keep getting brought up over and over again on this forum as something to stay away from. Assuming the extension cables are in good shape, I don't understand the vilification here. More robust extension cables are used for machinery on factory floors all the time with no issue, except being a trip hazard. Other than a Shopsmith owner using an undersized extension cable or a damaged one, what exactly is the problem with them in a Shopsmith shop if they are properly sized or oversized???

[HopefulSSer]

Heavy-gauge extension cords are expensive so I would imagine most people would shop on price and buy an under-sized one….

So I just did a bit more precise estimation and my choices are:

• Plug the SS directly into a 15A outlet fed by 38’ of 14/2, or….

• Plug the SS into a 20A circuit with 67’ of wiring consisting of 52’ of 12/2 to the outlet and 15’ of brand new 12 ga. extension cord

I also did the sanding disk test and with some force the clutch will slip (as it should). Now the question becomes just enough force or too little? I don’t know and don’t even know how I would know!

EDIT: thinking about it, if I can stop the motor then I guess the clutch is ok. It would slip under shock load but it holds under a slower progressive load increase....

[DLB]

...Assuming the extension cables are in good shape, I don't understand the vilification here. More robust extension cables are used for machinery on factory floors all the time with no issue, except being a trip hazard. Other than a Shopsmith owner using an undersized extension cable or a damaged one, what exactly is the problem with them in a Shopsmith shop???

I agree. Appropriately sized and in good condition, there's no issue. But there are many people that don't know, don't remember, or don't check. Also I can walk into HD right now and buy a 14/3 100' extension cord that says 13 Amps right on it for $100 less than the 10/3 version that SS says is needed. (I'd use 12 AWG and take my chances, the SS recommendation is pretty conservative, and that 10 AWG is expensive stuff.)

- David

[HopefulSSer]

I didn't even see 10 at Lowe's this morning. They had 12 in different lengths (I bought the shortest) and lighter from there. The only 10 I saw was a 6' dryer cord.

[RFGuy]

I agree. Appropriately sized and in good condition, there's no issue. But there are many people that don't know, don't remember, or don't check. Also I can walk into HD right now and buy a 14/3 100' extension cord that says 13 Amps right on it for $100 less than the 10/3 version that SS says is needed. (I'd use 12 AWG and take my chances, the SS recommendation is pretty conservative, and that 10 AWG is expensive stuff.)

- David

Thanks David. I am just wondering if that is the only issue or if someone has experienced something else in the past with a Shopsmith and an extension cable? Going with an undersized or too long of an extension cable is always an issue and customer education is important. So, I am not trying to give carte blanche for Shopsmith owners to go wild with extension cables; just wondering if there is more to the story here as reported on this forum in the past.

[HopefulSSer]

I agree. Appropriately sized and in good condition, there's no issue. But there are many people that don't know, don't remember, or don't check.

I'd add a fourth choice: they just use whatever they already have. So what if it's 10 or 15 or 95 feet too long?