Up Grades

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:23 pm

I debate between 510 and 520 whe purchasing my Shopsmith new three years ago. I purchased the 520. A few months later I had opportunity to use a 510 during a training session. I found the 510 frustraing. During a lunch break another felllow asked why I was frustrated by the 510. He laft that day after purchasing the 520 upgrade. I expect he is as happy as I am. Go with the upgrade. You will be pleased. fjimp

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:35 am

I bought the 510 upgrade almost the minute it came out and that almost did me on Shopsmith. In my opinion it was over priced and basically poorly engineered and had super lousy quality. I stopped using my SS for about 10 years. I hated it and would have sold it in a New York minute had someone came along with the right offer.

Then about 3 or 4 years ago I saw and played with a 520, I was sold so I ordered the upgrade and have been for the most part happy every since. It restored my faith in Shopsmith.

I like the 520 fence because of the ability to be able to adjust it parallel to the blade but I wish that adjustment was a little more precise. However I think I like the large wing nut on the 510 better. My 520 fence always seems to move when I press down on the locking handle. I usually have to adjust it back and forth a few times before I get it exactly where I want it. I never had the problem with 510 where I could tighten the fence down gradually bring it into perfect alignment.

But other than that which is no real biggy the 520 is fantastic. For the life of me I don't know why SS doesn't discountinue the 500, 505, and 510 then work at bringing the price of 520 down. I think they got it right and if the price was a little more reasonable they would probably sell a ton of them.

flyslinger · Post by **flyslinger** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:18 pm

I ordered my up grade to the 520 fence today......can't wait:)

shydragon · Post by **shydragon** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:44 pm

I just got an email today for the 520 pro upgrade, $100 off, bringing the price down to $325. I'm seriously thinking about it. But, I was just reading Ed's post about adjusting the fence. When I look at the photos, I see two levers. Please explain how they work?

tdubnik · Post by **tdubnik** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:35 am

shydragon wrote:I just got an email today for the 520 pro upgrade, $100 off, bringing the price down to $325. I'm seriously thinking about it. But, I was just reading Ed's post about adjusting the fence. When I look at the photos, I see two levers. Please explain how they work?

The bottom lever locks the front of the fence and the top lever locks the rear. This works pretty well most of the time however the fence does not move parallel to the table. When I set the fence and lock the front, the back of the fence always seems to move a little. I then have to unlock the fence and tweak the position until it is just right.

joedw00 · Post by **joedw00** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:07 am

tdubnik wrote:The bottom lever locks the front of the fence and the top lever locks the rear. This works pretty well most of the time however the fence does not move parallel to the table. When I set the fence and lock the front, the back of the fence always seems to move a little. I then have to unlock the fence and tweak the position until it is just right.

I have the same problem, the back of the fence always moves a little. I have had to unlock the fence and tweak the position several times, bumping it with my hand to get it right.

MY Crsftsman table saw has a knob that you turn, it works pretty good.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:19 am

tdubnik wrote:The bottom lever locks the front of the fence and the top lever locks the rear. This works pretty well most of the time however the fence does not move parallel to the table. When I set the fence and lock the front, the back of the fence always seems to move a little. I then have to unlock the fence and tweak the position until it is just right.

I believe that all of the fence movement should occur when you secure the bottom lever. The bottom lever pulls the infeed end of the fence tight against the front rail and in so doing should square the rip fence with the table. The movement that you are seeing is proper.

I attempt to aid in this process by pushing the rip fence up against the rail while securing the lower lever.

The top level does nothing more than "clamp" the outfeed end of the rip fence in position. This should not cause the rip fence to move.

reible · Post by **reible** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:48 am

Hi,

The fence needs to be moved in a prescribed way and clamped that way each and every time you do it or why worry about the alignment??? I have previous posted this:

"Now I got to the interesting part of the testing. I have a certain way I put the fence on and clamp it but sometimes I do it different ways because of how I have the setup of the shopsmith. What I now did was try different clamping methods like plopping it down and clamping, sliding and clamping, sliding the other way and clamping and well just about anyway I could think of and then checked it. One thing stayed the same, it was always with the back of the fence to the right but the amount was varried from the .002/.005 numbers to as high as .015" and .012/.013 was a common high number, and the bulk of them came in at .010 or below.

What this seems to show is that the clamping is a bit more critical then I would have guessed. And it was interesting that during all this never once did the fence show up off to the left."

The different clamping methods is the thing that will bite you if you are not careful. Now I can not say what will work for "you" but I can get the most consistency by moving the fence holding the head in my hand and exerting force against the rails as I move it. Then with it still being forced against the rail I clamp it. In this way the fence is aligned with in .002" and .005" noting that the fence is adjusted at the .002 point meaning that the real difference is from the .002" to the .005" or .003". This is well with in tolerance.

The problem comes if you say have the infeed table in place and you don't have the access you normally do... if in the "reach" zone it is more difficult to insure the accuracy so extra care must be taken. From what I have noted it is possible to clamp at as much as .015" (total error of .013").

It takes some practice but it is worth it... and keep in mind this should be done all the time so you are in the habit of doing it the "way" that works for you. To bad someone didn't do a video of that so you could all watch.

One other item I found is that the latch bits in the front can use a little bee's wax so you don't have to fight them to latch them. I don't recall if anyone mentions them as a part that needs lube or not.... anyway "just do it" or "try it you will like it".

Ed

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:17 pm

Hi All,

I for one have always owned a 510 and use it with no problems whatsoever.

I like the fact that you use the large wing handle/lock to bring the fence into alignment before locking it down, as this helps prevent the fence from moving before using the one locking handle that is similar to the 520's fence. The 520 fence has two locking handles, but no wing handle to bring everything into alignment. I think that is why some of the 520 users have problems with movement of the 520 fence when they lock it down. I myself have not had this problem when using my 510 fence.

I did however purchase the Incra system (with router accessories) a couple of years ago and use that fence for most of my ripping now. The fence system itself (without the router accesories) cost just a little more than what you will pay for a 510-to-520 upgrade. If I were thinking about upgrading a 510, I would really consider the option of purchasing the Incra fence first. It is not only more accurate than both the 510 or 520 fences, but you can also add on the Incra router table accesories at a later date if you like.

The main question you want to ask yourself is "how much ripping will I actually be doing?" "Will I be doing enough to justify the expense at this time, or will what I have now do the job I need?" After all, that is pretty much all a fence is used for (ripping).

Depending on that answer, only you can decide on what you truley need. The 510 is perfectly capable doing exactly what a 520 fence can do, and I am still very pleased with my 510 fence after all these years. Sure, the 520 fence looks more modern and has a couple more bells and whistles, but depending on what you plan on making with your system should be your answer.

Since you are just starting out with the 510, give yourself a year with it and see how much you really use your fence. The 520 upgrade goes on sale at least twice a year, so you won't be missing out on anything if you bypass this sale and wait for the next one.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:08 pm

reible wrote:.........

The different clamping methods is the thing that will bite you if you are not careful. Now I can not say what will work for "you" but I can get the most consistency by moving the fence holding the head in my hand and exerting force against the rails as I move it. Then with it still being forced against the rail I clamp it. In this way the fence is aligned with in .002" and .005" noting that the fence is adjusted at the .002 point meaning that the real difference is from the .002" to the .005" or .003". This is well with in tolerance. ..........

Ed

I agree with Ed's assessment completely. Furthermore,

After posting in this thread, I went to the shop to compare the three fence mechanism that I have. These are the 555645 (Bandsaw Fence), 514378 (505/510 Rip Fence) and 522359 (Pro Fence).

In reality, they all function basically the same. When tightened onto the front rail of the table saw the fence assumes its position of alignment. If properly aligned, the fence is at that point parallel to the miter slot and blade (if installed).

On all three, the front rail is assumed to be perpendicular to the axis of rotation or the blade. If it is not, the fence can be adjusted to make that correction. If the front rail is not perfectly straight through its entire length, moving the fence along the length will produce varied results.

Up to this point, I have not even considered the rear rail or rear locking mechanism. In my opinion, the rear rail has nothing to do with "fence alignment". The rear rail is simply a grasping point for the rear lock mechanism. In all three this is nothing more than a pressure point. When pressure is applied friction prevents the out feed end of the rip fence from moving laterally. The fence, theoretically, is properly aligned before the front locking mechanism is applied.

If the fence moves when the lock is applied, I would become suspicious of the parallelism of the front and rear rails or of damage to the rear locking bar.

It is my opinion that these statements apply equally to all three fence systems. I have no experience with the 500 but it appears to be functionally identical to the bandsaw fence and so I believe the same applies.