Trying to date my 10ER

[JPG]

What was crazy was I could not find part number 107700 or 107880 on either page of the parts list. Here is the second page. The inside of this 4 page brochure is exploded parts drawings.

No that is not Crazy.

It makes sense since the document is intended to apply to 'current' models.

However since those two parts are of an earlier model version it makes sense to only mention them in the list and omit them from the parts drawings which are of the 'current' model.

[amboyna]

Your explanation makes sense. I did not think of it that way.
So an earlier parts list would have those numbers?

[JPG]

Your explanation makes sense. I did not think of it that way.
So an earlier parts list would have those numbers?

I doubt it. Those numbers are so much different from earlier/typical part numbers 'then'.

HTH would I know? I just be on the outside looking back.

i.e. I know not why they are different.

[amboyna]

Here are the exploded drawings to go with the Parts Lists.
There is a 106200 and 108100 number. But no 107700. There is also a 206100 number, which is used by the Mark 5. My Mark 5 parts list has some 6 digit numbers that start with 2.
I looked through the rest of my papers and found nothing using a 107---
number.

[chapmanruss]

John Asked

Plus when did Magna in the 10ER era use 6 digit (like that) part numbers. Russ?

The answer is when they changed the Part Numbers in November of 1951, assemblies used a three digit space three digit number. The complete Headstock assembly became 102 000, before the change assemblies part numbers were one of the part's number followed by an X. The Spindle Part Number was 102-16 but the Spindle, Quill and Bearing assembly was 102-16X. Like other part numbers it was common for the space to be left out in some printings. This continued until the 505??? numbers began in 1964.

It is interesting how far apart the Serial Numbers were between the east and west factories.

[jsburger]

John Asked

Plus when did Magna in the 10ER era use 6 digit (like that) part numbers. Russ?

The answer is when they changed the Part Numbers in November of 1951, assemblies used a three digit space three digit number. The complete Headstock assembly became 102 000, before the change assemblies part numbers were one of the part's number followed by an X. The Spindle Part Number was 102-16 but the Spindle, Quill and Bearing assembly was 102-16X. Like other part numbers it was common for the space to be left out in some printings. This continued until the 505??? numbers began in 1964.

It is interesting how far apart the Serial Numbers were between the east and west factories.

Thanks Russ. I should have looked. "Assemblies" do have 3 space 3 part numbers in the 1953 parts list. I don't think I would call some of the things listed assemblies.

[chapmanruss]

I agree but anything sold that had more than one part to it was an assembly. Even the Tie Bar has 2 set screws and with them becomes an assembly.

[chapmanruss]

Bruce commented about this

Here are the exploded drawings to go with the Parts Lists.
There is a 106200 and 108100 number. But no 107700. There is also a 206100 number, which is used by the Mark 5. My Mark 5 parts list has some 6 digit numbers that start with 2.
I looked through the rest of my papers and found nothing using a 107---
number.

Again it makes sense not to see part number 107700 on those drawings since it was apparently for one of the previous versions of the way tube locks. We may have never seen this as an assembly, only the individual parts on previous drawings and parts lists. Some replacement parts were specific to versions of the 10E and 10ER. The Headstock itself has 7 versions which require matching quill return Spring Housings and the correct Quill & Way Tube Lock parts. As time went on during the Model 10 era more parts for replacement became available only as assemblies so they need part numbers for them. This practice is still being used today. Many of the individual parts can only be purchased as an assembly from Shopsmith. As an example, if you break your Mark V quill return spring you have to order it in the Spring Housing. Kind of a pain if you need it for a Model 10ER. Yes the spring is the same one used for the 10E that is in the Mark V and 7 today but the housing is different. The Model 10's had 4 different Spring Housings although the first two were simply a change in material, aluminum to steel and are interchangeable although I do not recommend using the aluminum one. S/N 1077 has the aluminum Spring housing and it bends easily which explains the quick change to steel.

[DarrenDD]

Any help with dating the following 4 machines would be much appreciated:

C5F7BB65-36D8-40C0-9872-4573C33E030B.jpeg (384.06 KiB) Viewed 3731 times

A322B30E-F2BC-4964-952F-83511FCE1121.jpeg (547.58 KiB) Viewed 3731 times

FB2032E4-9512-441E-B0CC-8B1E23DDEA97.jpeg (324.04 KiB) Viewed 3731 times

1CBB0190-F08E-417A-B520-F1E91507DF0D.jpeg (565.51 KiB) Viewed 3731 times

[chapmanruss]

DarrenDD,

As you know it is hard to put specific date as to when a particular Model 10E or 10ER was made. There are some things we do know such as the first 250 Model 10E Shopsmith's were finished and shipped out to the West Coast Montgomery Ward catalog stores in November 1947 starting with serial number 1001. We also know the date the Model 10ER Headstock changed to version 6 and the Carriage changed to version 2 both going to the single wedge locks in April 1951. The serial numbers at that change were R53198 for the Western Plant and ER40908 for the Eastern Plant.

As for your four serial numbers here is a best guess

10E 4982 Likely the beginning of 1948 (there had already been changes to the Model 10E by this time. Headstock, Spring Housing & Tailstock version 2)
10ER R35722 Likely mid 1950
10ER R42104 Likely late 1950
10ER R54177 Shortly after April 1951

For those looking at DarrenDD's post above and wondering why I listed the 3 Model's as 10ER instead of ER as they say on the plate is they are actually a 10ER but the plate change from 10E to 10ER only said ER. That was later changed with a different plate design.