I am going to drill out some mortises in poplar stock for dust skirts on a couple of nightstands. When setting up my model 500 for upright drilling, I discovered my fence is not square to the table. I do have my table square to the drill bit. The fence is tight to the table, and all the bolts in the fence are tight, no visible gaps anywhere.
Any ideas?
holding 2 1/2" wide boards against the fence to drill into the edge of the board for a typical mortise will create an angled mortise into the piece. I had two ideas: either loosen the bolts at the front end of the fence and shim one side with a playing card (or two) or face the fence with MDF, bolted through to the other side, just like a sacrificial fence and shim the top edge of the sacrificial fence out from the aluminum fence.
At this point I plan on the sacrificial fence, shimmed out. Please note that my fence is .023" out at the top of the fence. That almost equates to 1/8" in 6". To make sure I'm explaining it properly, the fence is not out of parallel to the miter slot, but out of perpindicular to the table.
Thanks for any ideas.
500 fence not square to table
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Well I never heard of that problem before and never checked mine for it either.
Wooden it be easier to do the MDF? That way you won't have to realign the fence front to back.
Wooden it be easier to do the MDF? That way you won't have to realign the fence front to back.
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
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Bob
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Bob
This is a new one on me.
Just to make sure it is the fence that is tilted and not the whole table take a drill bit and chuck it up and then using a short square check to see if the table is at 90 degrees to the bit... do this in the direction that the table tilts.
Then using the square on the table top check to see if the fence face is square. You should do that to both sides of the fence and the results should be the same. If it not 90 degrees (yes I know you said that already but we are just checking again).
If the fence is not square I would take it off and start looking at the head for something amiss, and also check the front edge on the table for something that doesn't look right. Maybe mount the fence on one of the extension table and see if it is square when mount there.
It has got to be something odd happening as the whole system is really a simple one and not all that many pieces fit together so it should be something easy to spot.
I'm guess you have not been noticing this when ripping? It could/should have shown up then too.
One last item, when doing the operation you are doing the table really needs to have a front brace in place. Shopsmith sells or at least sold a front table leg but I ended up using a 2x4 with a notch cut to fit the front of the table. I would go into drill press mode and bring the table down on the the notched 2x4 then tighten the carriage lock.
One more question would be which fence you have. Not to long ago someone reported that the screws that mount the head to the fence had stripped on his... if you have that model you might want to see if that could have happen to yours... that could account for the what you are seeing.
Ed
Just to make sure it is the fence that is tilted and not the whole table take a drill bit and chuck it up and then using a short square check to see if the table is at 90 degrees to the bit... do this in the direction that the table tilts.
Then using the square on the table top check to see if the fence face is square. You should do that to both sides of the fence and the results should be the same. If it not 90 degrees (yes I know you said that already but we are just checking again).
If the fence is not square I would take it off and start looking at the head for something amiss, and also check the front edge on the table for something that doesn't look right. Maybe mount the fence on one of the extension table and see if it is square when mount there.
It has got to be something odd happening as the whole system is really a simple one and not all that many pieces fit together so it should be something easy to spot.
I'm guess you have not been noticing this when ripping? It could/should have shown up then too.
One last item, when doing the operation you are doing the table really needs to have a front brace in place. Shopsmith sells or at least sold a front table leg but I ended up using a 2x4 with a notch cut to fit the front of the table. I would go into drill press mode and bring the table down on the the notched 2x4 then tighten the carriage lock.
One more question would be which fence you have. Not to long ago someone reported that the screws that mount the head to the fence had stripped on his... if you have that model you might want to see if that could have happen to yours... that could account for the what you are seeing.
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
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JPG
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Is the bottom of the long sides of the fence pushed in? The width at the bottom(open side) should be the same width as the top; On Greenies and Goldies this width is over 1 1/4". On newer 500 fences it is slightly smaller(the fence wall thickness is less).
Lay a straight edge against the bottom edge of the fence from front to rear. If it is 'caved in' there will be a gap in the middle.
The only other explanation is that it is somehow twisted. I assume both sides of the fence are 'tight against the table'. Actually the sides do NOT touch the table except at the 'rear' end. The bottom edges are longer at the rear, and the front is held up off the table the same amount by the 'T' bar on the front.
Now if the 'T' bar is bent or the fence itself is mounted to the 'T' bar unevenly, the sides would not be perpendicular to the table.
Hopefully somewhere in this rambling is an explanation for your situation.
Lay a straight edge against the bottom edge of the fence from front to rear. If it is 'caved in' there will be a gap in the middle.
The only other explanation is that it is somehow twisted. I assume both sides of the fence are 'tight against the table'. Actually the sides do NOT touch the table except at the 'rear' end. The bottom edges are longer at the rear, and the front is held up off the table the same amount by the 'T' bar on the front.
Now if the 'T' bar is bent or the fence itself is mounted to the 'T' bar unevenly, the sides would not be perpendicular to the table.
Hopefully somewhere in this rambling is an explanation for your situation.
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Thanks for the ideas.
Everything appears "tight". No gaps anywhere (execpt between the fence and table across the center of the fence, just like it is designed), stripped out bolts, etc.... The table is perpindicular to the drill bit. The fence is not perpindicular to the table.
I don't use the SS as a tablesaw, so I have not run into this as a problem. Frankly, I'm surprised I've not encountered this issue yet. My next step is to put a straight edge across the entire face of the fence, see if there is a warp or something. I was just shutting down for the night when I discovered this.
I am just confused.... something out of whack like this should have visible signs like gaps between the table and fence (front and back of course)
Everything appears "tight". No gaps anywhere (execpt between the fence and table across the center of the fence, just like it is designed), stripped out bolts, etc.... The table is perpindicular to the drill bit. The fence is not perpindicular to the table.
I don't use the SS as a tablesaw, so I have not run into this as a problem. Frankly, I'm surprised I've not encountered this issue yet. My next step is to put a straight edge across the entire face of the fence, see if there is a warp or something. I was just shutting down for the night when I discovered this.
I am just confused.... something out of whack like this should have visible signs like gaps between the table and fence (front and back of course)
Problem found.
My table is slightly warped.
As your facing the machine, the front/left corner of the table is tweaked downward about .025". Mounting the fence on that side of the table causes the fence to then reflect the warp.
I'll probably be looking for another model 500 table I guess. I doubt I'll be able to straighten it. I'll try I'm sure though!
My table is slightly warped.
As your facing the machine, the front/left corner of the table is tweaked downward about .025". Mounting the fence on that side of the table causes the fence to then reflect the warp.
I'll probably be looking for another model 500 table I guess. I doubt I'll be able to straighten it. I'll try I'm sure though!
You could try to shim the low corner and see if that helps. Just use the appropriate shim under the front left mounting bolt.otee453 wrote:Problem found.
My table is slightly warped.
As your facing the machine, the front/left corner of the table is tweaked downward about .025". Mounting the fence on that side of the table causes the fence to then reflect the warp.
I'll probably be looking for another model 500 table I guess. I doubt I'll be able to straighten it. I'll try I'm sure though!
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JPG
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Makes a whole lot more sense than 'bending'. Let the shim do the 'deflecting'.tdubnik wrote:You could try to shim the low corner and see if that helps. Just use the appropriate shim under the front left mounting bolt.
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
The shim may be possible, I will have to do some checking when I get home. I'm wondering if I'll just end up with an angled but warped tabled, trying to shim it. I'm leaning heavily to buying a replacement that I know is flat.
We'll see. It'll be the shim first. In my experience, trying to bend something back to shape, never seems to work well.
We'll see. It'll be the shim first. In my experience, trying to bend something back to shape, never seems to work well.
You would be amazed at the pressure a tight bolt can exert. It could actually be that your table is perfectly flat if you removed it from the trunion and that the mount may not be perfect. Before you remove the table just loosen the low corner and leave the others tight. Check for square again and see if anything changed.otee453 wrote:The shim may be possible, I will have to do some checking when I get home. I'm wondering if I'll just end up with an angled but warped tabled, trying to shim it. I'm leaning heavily to buying a replacement that I know is flat.
We'll see. It'll be the shim first. In my experience, trying to bend something back to shape, never seems to work well.
If you had some way to mount a dial indicator OFF the table but with the probe ON the low corner while you loosen that bolt, you will see that corner rise a little.