Double Tilt Way Tubes.

[DLB]

In another thread, the subject of Double Tilt (DT) way tubes came up. If you use the DT Upgrade Kit on a Mark5/V, the way tubes are too short to seat in the Base Arms and the instructions call for centering the tubes, leaving a gap at each end inside the Base Arms. I've always had reservations about this, when the machine is tilted to either vertical position there is a lot of weight on the way tubes and only the small setscrew to keep them from seating, closing that gap, or migrating under the weight and vibration of normal operations, gradually closing the gap.

On a conventional Mark 5/V, the difference between bench and way tubes is 3/4", the way tubes being the smaller of the two. On a DT machine, the nominal difference between bench and way tubes is ~1/8", the way tubes again being shorter. (Nominal meaning it allows the way tubes to fully seat in the Base Arms.)

There are several options to eliminate the gaps. Filler plugs have been suggested for the inside of the Base Arms. Trimming the bench tubes was also suggested. I also considered trimming 1/8" off of a set of good bench tubes and using them as way tubes. In the other thread, jpg mentioned using PVC plugs with a piece cut out to allow them to fit. This sounds like a great solution to me, I had previously considered cutting filler plugs from bench or way tube scraps but was concerned that these might be noisy due to normal machine vibration. But 1-1/2" (ID) Schedule 40 is a bit oversized, so cutting about 1/2" out of a plug allows you to compress it to install and results in a tight fit against the Base Arm walls.

I made four 5/16" PVC plugs and the fit was perfect. No more gaps, and the Base Arm comes down on the hinge pin right where you expect it to be. PVC is very easy to work, I used the bandsaw and keep a blade that I use primarily for PVC and other plastics because I'm unsure about wear.

- David

[JPG]

Thank You or providing the way tube length for double tilt.

So 5/16" is the correct width to plug 52" way tubes..

[dusty]

Has anyone actually reported an issue that is known to have been caused my Way Tubes relocating in that "gap"?

[JPG]

It ain't about what HAS happened, but rather about preventing it happening.

[dusty]

It ain't about what HAS happened, but rather about preventing it happening.

My point exactly! Preventing what from happening? What catastrophic event should I be guarding against?

[edma194]

In vertical mode the way tubes and everything locked onto them could fall up to 3/4" if all four set screws gave out at once.
Even in horizontal mode it is unsafe to operate the machine if the way tubes can shift. Just like it's unsafe to work with the casters down.

It is unlikely for all of the set screws to fail at once but upgrades are installed by owners and it's possible for someone to do a poor job and over time with vibration they could come loose.

[JPG]

Not sure if this the correct thread to post this, but here goes.

The question of easily centering the original way tubes(52") when upgrading to the double tilt. AIUI the oem waytubes on an original double tilt SS is 52 5/8*".

If so, then the 52" waytubes need to be off set from each end in the double tilt end castings by 5/16" when using original 52" way tubes in the new double tilt end castings.

I am also assuming the new double tilt tube sockets have a fixed stop.

[DLB]

Not sure if this the correct thread to post this, but here goes.

The question of easily centering the original way tubes(52") when upgrading to the double tilt. AIUI the oem waytubes on an original double tilt SS is 52 5/8*".

I don't think we know, with any certainty, the length of OEM way tubes or bench tubes for DT machines like M7 or M4. When I added DT to my M4P-like shorty, I fitted the tubes to the stops. Seemed the obvious choice.

If so, then the 52" waytubes need to be off set from each end in the double tilt end castings by 5/16" when using original 52" way tubes in the new double tilt end castings.

I am also assuming the new double tilt tube sockets have a fixed stop.

The DT Base Arms are identical to previous Base Arms in this area, so they have a definite stop. The setscrew location had been changed to the top (when vertical) previously.

I thought it would be a simple matter to see if the SS PL reflected different Bench or Way Tube PNs for M7 Vs MV. Nope. The M7 parts page link for Bench and Base doesn't work correctly, takes you to the MV drawing instead. But, independent of how the OEM actually does it, I can't imagine any plausible reason why I would not want my way tubes against the stops. Where they've been since at least the 1950's. It's well worth it to me even if the only improvement is that it is easier to register the Base Arm in the same location each time I remove and install it.

- David

[dusty]

I'm sorry but until I can make the measurements to define the length of Way Tubes and Bench Tubes being shipped with new machines (DT or otherwise) I will not be convinced that Shopsmith has made such a change.

Maybe an owner of a new DT could convince me otherwise but until that happens the Bench tubes are 52 3/4" and the Way Tubes are 52".

I have a DT but mine is a conversion from my original 510.

[JPG]

I'm sorry but until I can make the measurements to define the length of Way Tubes and Bench Tubes being shipped with new machines (DT or otherwise) I will not be convinced that Shopsmith has made such a change.

Maybe an owner of a new DT could convince me otherwise but until that happens the Bench tubes are 52 3/4" and the Way Tubes are 52".

I have a DT but mine is a conversion from my original 510.

And the way tubes are installed with equal space off the ends of 5/16" each?