Dado Washers

[edma194]

I have made gears on in with a Dividing head set up on the table.

I know this is off-topic, but the dado washers didn't really impress anyone anyway, LOL.

I think most if not all wobble dados work that way. They are kinda cool but I don't like something wobbling at high speed like that and they don't make the cleanest dado cuts. Ordinary stacked dados with intermediate chipper blades are that great either. However, the cost of solid dado blades is very high if you can find them. I saw something online long ago about someone who stacked up regular circular saw blades on an arbor using neoprene washers cut from an inner tube to separate the blades. He said the neoprene washers held the blades together with just enough space between them to make a very clean cut. Not going to try that either though.

If you have pics of that gear making setup on your shaper I would love to see them, and know what dividing head you have to fit the small shaper table? I have watched video's on YouTube of this, and in reality using the shaper is a far more accurate method of creating the involute gear tooth profile than a milling cutter, but getting the linkage properly setup to drive the dividing head at the correct ratio looks challenging.

I'm interested to find out why the shaper is better than an endmill on a vertical mill with a motorized table. Is there less cost in the cutting tool for the shaper?

As for OSHA and safety, my machines are dangerous. They were made when pulley guards and safety features were sold as an "option" and many people simply didn't want the extra expense. As with everything Atlas on ebay, original guards for my machines are ridiculously priced, but I do have making some on my list.

It looks dangerous. In a one man shop you can count on yourself to stay clear of the machine but I think JPG is right that OSHA wouldn't allow this thing in a commercial shop now if it wasn't contained within a safety cage of some kind. Still cool looking. Wish I had a real machine tools like that for metal.

[miken]

I'm interested to find out why the shaper is better than an endmill on a vertical mill with a motorized table. Is there less cost in the cutting tool for the shaper?

I am by no means an expert, but my understanding is that gear cutters come in sets of 8 per diametral pitch, and each cutter is designed to cover a range of tooth numbers, for a specific module (profile) with a specific pressure angle. Because the cutter is covering a "range" of situations the cutter is ground to be an approximation of the true profile shape. Actually, it is a perfect shape but only for the lowest number of teeth gear in the range it covers.

The shaper on the other hand, with a properly ground cutting tool at the correct pressure angle will cut the involute shape perfectly for any gear given the ratio between the horizontal table movement is synchronized with the rotation increment of the dividing head.

[Edit]

Reread your post. If you were talking generally, the shaper is not better than a milling machine with an endmill, that is why shapers are virtually obsolete. But, it does by nature of design cut very flat, it has no head to go out of tram or flex under load. Shapers are still the best way to cut an internal slot or keyway in a bore. There are ways to cut an internal keyway on a mill using the quill, but a very slow manual process. Yes, shaper tools are easily homemade from a blank of high speed steel. Milling cutters are expensive and complex and can break easily.

Mike -

[miken]

Here's my shaper. To be honest, wood working tools scare me more. My SS table saw especially. It sounds like an F-16 about to take off, and the whistle of the saw blade adds to the pucker factor. LOL

Mike -

[edma194]

The shaper on the other hand, with a properly ground cutting tool at the correct pressure angle will cut the involute shape perfectly for any gear given the ratio between the horizontal table movement is synchronized with the rotation increment of the dividing head.

[Edit]

Reread your post. If you were talking generally, the shaper is not better than a milling machine with an endmill, that is why shapers are virtually obsolete. But, it does by nature of design cut very flat, it has no head to go out of tram or flex under load. Shapers are still the best way to cut an internal slot or keyway in a bore. There are ways to cut an internal keyway on a mill using the quill, but a very slow manual process. Yes, shaper tools are easily homemade from a blank of high speed steel. Milling cutters are expensive and complex and can break easily.

Mike -

Gear cutting was a perfect example where a shaper cutter can be ground to a precise shape. A custom end mill will be more difficult and more expensive to make or buy. I looked briefly at a couple of videos on that metal shaper and they were just cutting simple flat slots, not that impressive, but cutting gears that way makes a lot of sense.

[GetterDone]

I have made gears on in with a Dividing head set up on the table.

I know this is off-topic, but the dado washers didn't really impress anyone anyway, LOL.

If you have pics of that gear making setup on your shaper I would love to see them, and know what dividing head you have to fit the small shaper table? I have watched video's on YouTube of this, and in reality using the shaper is a far more accurate method of creating the involute gear tooth profile than a milling cutter, but getting the linkage properly setup to drive the dividing head at the correct ratio looks challenging.

It's interesting this came up, as I have been in the process of making a "direct" indexing tool for this exact purpose modeled after the Atlas MFC horizontal mill accessory that is upwards of $800+ on ebay. I would never make enough gears to justify that purchase and paid less than that for the entire mill. I reused the spindle and tailstock castings from a scrapped Rockwell wood lathe. See pic.

As for OSHA and safety, my machines are dangerous. They were made when pulley guards and safety features were sold as an "option" and many people simply didn't want the extra expense. As with everything Atlas on ebay, original guards for my machines are ridiculously priced, but I do have making some on my list.

I can get Pictures of that.
I feel like I am way behind in this Thread.
I don't get E-mail notifications.

I made a head for the Shaper that holds the Gear cutter.

[jsburger]

A few months ago Email notifications stopped working. I have gotten them for years but no more. I wish they would fix that.

[edma194]

I still get the notifications. In the User Control Panel -> Board Preferences I have all Notification boxes checked and Email checked for Bookmarks, Subscribed Topics, and Private Messages.

[miken]

I can get Pictures of that.
I made a head for the Shaper that holds the Gear cutter.

Yes, please.
So are you:
1. Grinding a custom cutting tool to match the module of the gear and simply down-feeding to depth for each tooth, then rotate the dividing head to the next tooth? (I have heard this is very hard to do in anything but plastics and maybe aluminum due to the cutting tool acting as a form tool and the cutting forces around the entire cutting edge are huge.)

2. Grinding a custom tool to the pressure angle of the gear (i.e. 14.5 degrees) and using the table feed and a linkage to rotate the dividing head at the proper ratio to follow the involute cutting path?
(this makes the cutting tool act like a threading tool and only cut using a small section of the tool as it pivots though the involute cutting path.)

Hard to explain, but there are many YouTube videos.

Thanks, Mike -

[jsburger]

I still get the notifications. In the User Control Panel -> Board Preferences I have all Notification boxes checked and Email checked for Bookmarks, Subscribed Topics, and Private Messages.

Yup, I haven't touches my settings in years. All the email boxes are checked and the email notifications just stopped coming a couple of months ago.

[GetterDone]

I can get Pictures of that.
I made a head for the Shaper that holds the Gear cutter.

Yes, please.
So are you:
1. Grinding a custom cutting tool to match the module of the gear and simply down-feeding to depth for each tooth, then rotate the dividing head to the next tooth? (I have heard this is very hard to do in anything but plastics and maybe aluminum due to the cutting tool acting as a form tool and the cutting forces around the entire cutting edge are huge.)

2. Grinding a custom tool to the pressure angle of the gear (i.e. 14.5 degrees) and using the table feed and a linkage to rotate the dividing head at the proper ratio to follow the involute cutting path?
(this makes the cutting tool act like a threading tool and only cut using a small section of the tool as it pivots though the involute cutting path.)

Hard to explain, but there are many YouTube videos.

Thanks, Mike -

rom


I will try to Get those pictures soon.

I am heading out of state to buy more SS stuff Tomorrow.

So I will try to make pictures / or hunt for the old pictures.